Advice from a mechanic... fact or fiction?

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Advice from a mechanic... fact or fiction?
Topic Started: Dec 23 2008, 10:29 AM (379 Views)
junker	Dec 23 2008, 10:29 AM Post #1
New Member Posts: 35 Group: Members Member #316 Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Location Maine Year/Make/Model 2000 Metro 1.0 5-Speed	I was at a local shop today to get some tires mounted and was shooting the breeze with the owner, telling him about my newly acquired metro. He said that the engines are junk and not to even think about rebuilding it. He said the camshaft has no bearing and is steel riding directly on the aluminum of the head. He also said the head is likely going to be warped and that the block will have to be planed. He said don't waste my time or money on it and to find a low mileage engine. Geeze! The car runs like a top, it's just got low compression and 106k miles. Everything I've read on this forum seems to imply replacing rings & valves usually goes pretty smoothly. It seems to me if I have a 1-owner car that was driven by elderly people I'm better off redoing this engine that has likely been cared for and not abused. Is there any merit to what he told me? I am thinking he just might not be familiar with this car. He said he had one in the shop a few years ago and $2700 later then engine still wasn't running right after a rebuild.



Hacksaw	Dec 23 2008, 11:59 AM Post #2
Disciple of Johnny Mullet Posts: 410 Group: Valued Members Member #6 Joined: Sep 10, 2008 Location Sterling Heights, Michigan Year/Make/Model 1994, 1995, 1995, 1995, & 1997 Geo Metro	While he was correct about the camshaft journals being bare aluminum, he was dead wrong about the reliability of the almighty G10. I would recommend that you ignore his input and seek advice from people proficient in the way of Metro from now on. Knowing the history of your car like you do, I agree that you have a perfect candidate for a rebuild. I would recommend replacing the exhaust valves with stainless steel ones, all valve guides, rings, bearings, oil pump, and water pump. A through soaking and cleaning of your lifters should quite down any ticking they had. Replacing them is expensive. Good luck and have fun! Hacksaw.



Fireball 89	Dec 23 2008, 12:10 PM Post #3
2.4 Cylinders of Determination Posts: 281 Group: Tech Certified Member #58 Joined: Oct 6, 2008 Location Marland, OK, USA Year/Make/Model 89 Geo Metro LSi, 3cyl, 5spd	I believe regular maintenance and frequent fluid and filter changes are important for all mechanical systems. Perhaps the previous owners did this regularly and did not abuse the vehicle or treat it as a disposable vehicle (run it into the ground). I'll leave the empirical experience to our professional mechanics that frequent this forum on the merits of Suzuki mechanical design and engineering. My Metro has seen the inside of many garages before I got her. Many of those garages didn't want to "spend time working on a cheap 3-cylinder" and it shows. When I first acquired my metro, much of the work was redoing hack jobs. I only have to "get into" the engine now for a truly finished dependable car. I've one cylinder down on compression and because of informational forums such as Geo Metro Forum I'll be ready when I put wrench to engine. That said, my metro fires up every time, runs all day, stops when I step on the middle pedal, and yes, smokes regularly. I believe the smoking is directly related to the block/head oil restricter/check ball and misaligned oil drain back holes in the head gasket. If your Metro is in good condition, continue the maintenance, enjoy the positives of Metro ownership, and be prepared with information to address any mechanical aspect of your Metro. If you find a mechanic or shop that understands and appreciates your vehicle (with good service), let them know verbally and with your business. Edward



Johnny Mullet	Dec 23 2008, 08:41 PM Post #4
"Mullet of Ox" Posts: 4,704 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Sep 7, 2008 Location Ashtabula, Ohio Year/Make/Model 97 & 98 Metro	Most mechanics are gearheads (like me) who have no respect for small cars like the Metro. To them it's a "Disposable car" if it needs engine work. The problem really lies when mechanics become "Parts Changers". Why do you think most Metros in the junkyards have no heads on them? Because most people would just sooner slap on a used head than fix theirs. Our shop has a few loyal Volvo customers who come and see me since I have Volvo car and truck experience. One of them called me from 600 miles away and told me his car was running rough and the check engine light blinks. I explained he has a misfire (blinking CEL = possible cat failure could occur) and I told him to get it checked. Turns out this guy drove all the way back so I can fix it. I found bad plugs (original problem) but since he drove it all that way on 2 dead cylinders (2 out of 5) he also burned up the exhaust valves. We rebuild his head right at the shop and saved him a couple thousand dollars. He still comes back for regular service and apologized for not doing the tune-up when I recommended it 2 months prior Why take an engine that has been maintained and trade it for one with no history just because it needs valves or rings? You might as well quit maintaining your shit and drive em till they hit 30,000 miles and junk it like Japan does.



junker	Dec 23 2008, 09:31 PM Post #5
New Member Posts: 35 Group: Members Member #316 Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Location Maine Year/Make/Model 2000 Metro 1.0 5-Speed	Good, glad to hear it. With the camshaft journals being aluminum what is the life expectancy of that component? Thanks!



billy508	Dec 23 2008, 09:48 PM Post #6
billy508 Posts: 964 Group: Valued Members Member #192 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Location Pensacola Florida Year/Make/Model 93 geo metro vert, 1980 f150 truck, 85 toyota celica	Many cylinder heads have the cam running the the bare journals. Its just a design thing. Looking at all the posts, I dont think you will find many problems with the cam journals. I heard the same thing when I went to rebuild mine. It is not true. I rebuilt mine and could not find any weak links. The forums really have a lot of good info on all the little things that can trip you up, ie, head gasket mod, check valve. If these motors were not any good you would not find so many with 300,000 plus on them. I have been in the trade for about 50 years (retired now) I might not be up to speed on the latest models, but I like the Metros. Fun and easy to work on. So says me LOL Every one have a great holiday season. PS I wonder how in the hell he put 2700 in a 1.0 geo engine? Might be like the guy who asked his friend to do a brake job for him. when he went to pay he said "How much I owe you?" 400 dollars he said. Damn!!!! the dealer said it would do it for 200. Sure The friend said "They know what they are doing, It takes me twice as long" Edited by billy508, Dec 23 2008, 09:55 PM.



metroschultz	Dec 24 2008, 12:43 AM Post #7
NHRA N E 1 Posts: 671 Group: Tech Certified Member #10 Joined: Sep 11, 2008 Location The Beach, Va. Year/Make/Model 1993,4,5,7 Metro+Integra+Swift	My first Geo came from the auction. I have friends in the used car biz. (yes used car guys have friends) One guy went to auction with two cars, one to sell one to drive, he got an offer on his driver and needed a ride home. Last car through the line was a Metro. he paid $300 for it running on 2 cylinders. Asked me "how much to replace?" At that time the car was only 4 years old and a used motor was going for $750 a reman was going for $ 1500. Now add labor (at shop rates, in this area as much as $125 per hour) and you can get to 2700 pretty quick with just a few "incidentals" "Well you need a water pump and shocks and tires and coolant and a radiator and..." You get the idea. Long story - short. I bought it for the $300. That was 1996, I've owned one ever since, (sometimes more than one)(I had 6 once but have since sold them all) S.



Will	Dec 24 2008, 02:23 AM Post #8
Victory is mine!!!! Posts: 1,420 Group: Moderator Member #3 Joined: Sep 9, 2008 Location Brownsville, TN Year/Make/Model 2008 Chevy Cobalt XFE	Johnny Mullet Dec 23 2008, 08:41 PM "Disposable car" I tend to remember hearing something similar about the Plymouth Roadrunner way back when. Now look at how much they are worth.



Bon2000	Dec 24 2008, 07:48 AM Post #9
Posts: 231 Group: Valued Members Member #121 Joined: Oct 24, 2008 Location Oklahoma Year/Make/Model 2000 lsi,4cyl auto	i have always had a disposable car as they call em,from a chevette in the early eighties to a tercel,and metros,a phoenix,and i tell ya,nothing beats em for a cheap ride,id rather sink money into something ill get way better gas mileage out of,then a guzzler.....smaller cars are easier to find parts for and they always cost less......as far as major rebuilds,again,its price point....



DebSol	Dec 26 2008, 10:40 AM Post #10
New Member Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #152 Joined: Nov 2, 2008	Johnny Mullet Dec 23 2008, 08:41 PM drive em till they hit 30,000 miles and junk it like Japan does. The reason Japan does this is because of an inverse tax rate. Taxes go way up the older a car gets. Must be good for the auto industry, having to continually make new cars. Must suck for people that want to collect, having to pay so many taxes though. My friend bought his Tercel while stationed over there, and he said it looked like the oil had never been changed. It may not have. Yuk.



dimetrodon	Dec 26 2008, 10:57 PM Post #11
Posts: 444 Group: Valued Members Member #311 Joined: Dec 14, 2008 Location Northern Illinois Year/Make/Model 1990 and 1992 Geo Metros	I have had the heads off some motorcycle engines and it is not unusual for the cams to run on bare aluminum. The important thing to realize is the oil film does all the work - provided that the oil is always there when the engine is running. You really would not want metal-to-metal contact no matter what the two metals were.



wanderingelf	Dec 27 2008, 05:13 PM Post #12
New Member Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #321 Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Location Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada Year/Make/Model 1989 Chevy Sprint	junker Dec 23 2008, 10:29 AM I was at a local shop today to get some tires mounted and was shooting the breeze with the owner, telling him about my newly acquired metro. He said that the engines are junk and not to even think about rebuilding it. He said the camshaft has no bearing and is steel riding directly on the aluminum of the head. He also said the head is likely going to be warped and that the block will have to be planed. He said don't waste my time or money on it and to find a low mileage engine. Geeze! The car runs like a top, it's just got low compression and 106k miles. Everything I've read on this forum seems to imply replacing rings & valves usually goes pretty smoothly. It seems to me if I have a 1-owner car that was driven by elderly people I'm better off redoing this engine that has likely been cared for and not abused. Is there any merit to what he told me? I am thinking he just might not be familiar with this car. He said he had one in the shop a few years ago and $2700 later then engine still wasn't running right after a rebuild. It sounds like to me that this mechanic in question ether has no license, experience, or motivation to earn a pay cheque. Yes Metro motors are extremely light and are made of aluminum. If this guy actually had experience he would know that many metros dispite their aluminum heads and cam journals , last well over 300 000 KM or even miles! Mine has 320 000 km on a junk yard motor! The head is not warped, the cam is tight, and it only burns a minimal amount of oil, despite the frequent - 30C cold starts! The only reason I changed the engine is that I missed a shift during an emergency stop from 145 KPH and hit first instead of fourth , resulting in a spun main and disintegrated thrust bering (try that with yer V8), but the engine ran well (with one hell of a knock mind you) for over 5000 more km including a trip through the Canadian Rockies. It was a mercy change. What? $2700 bones for a rebuild and it was still not running right? May be that I am not as good as a automotive mechanic as that guy due to being a Heavy Duty Mech, but I am pretty sure that I could have rebuilt it and added boost for that price! Sounds like this guy is a scam artist!



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