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| Singh Grooves | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 25 2009, 11:20 PM (2,730 Views) | |
| Johnny Mullet | Feb 25 2009, 11:20 PM Post #1 |
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Fear the Mullet
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Has anyone actually tried doing this to their cylinder head.....................![]() I have an extra head that I am rebuilding (thanks billy508) and I plan on doing some major modding to this head an installing it on Christine. My plans are to regrind the valve seats, port and polish, add a mild performance grind cam and advanced timing gear. I was toying with the idea of doing the Singh grooves just to experiment and see if it does actually do anything, but I would like input from you guys first. Here's the link................ http://www.jeremiahsviolins.com/grooves.htm More.............. http://www.somender-singh.com/ What do you think? |
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| 2000Firefly1.3L | Feb 25 2009, 11:53 PM Post #2 |
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looks like whomever did those singh grooves did not care to make them equal and straight |
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| billy508 | Feb 26 2009, 12:06 AM Post #3 |
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billy508
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I thought about it. Jury is still out for me. I am not sure if it might not induce cracking. Might be worth a try but I would hate to mess up a good head.
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| z34-5speed | Feb 26 2009, 02:14 AM Post #4 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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This is actually from the Singh site itself... http://somender-singh.com/content/view/133/37/ |
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| jeff | Feb 26 2009, 04:42 AM Post #5 |
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Didn't Tata Motors employ this? |
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| Fireball 89 | Feb 27 2009, 03:10 PM Post #6 |
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2.4 Cylinders of Determination
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I enjoyed looking over Sing's site and the many cylinder head iterations. It would be neat to hear the thoughts and opinions of combustion chamber design engineers. If this is approached as an experiment-project that, at minimum, won't detrimentally affect the efficiency or reliability of the head, then I think something could be learned. However, unless we try things, we won't know, so as an experiment-project, I think this would be interesting. It would be neat to pull the engine, base line on a dyno and gather exhaust data. Install grooved head and again gather dyno and exhaust data. Install in car and gather "seat-of-the-pants" dyno data. Then compare pre and post groove data. I'm not an engine designer nor do I have experience with fluid dynamics or the specific properties or characteristics of flame/combustion propagation and associated pressures and energies, so I could be completely wrong in this generalization: the grooves as seen by the compressing air-fuel mixture appear to be vortex generators channeling turbulent flow into the center of the combustion chamber, generally directly toward the spark plug. The most important part of this project would be the detail of the groove structures. You will want to fillet and round the groove to minimize crack propagation, to maximize heat transfer, and to minimize vibration. The dynamic heat and pressures in the combustion chamber with a sharp valley notched into the head will be an opportunity for a crack to form, become a "hot spot" inducing pre-ignition, and if valley locations are ill-conceived, a place where the resulting structure between the valleys might vibrate like a tuning fork and crack. I'd give it a shot. Edward |
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| Johnny Mullet | Feb 28 2009, 08:50 PM Post #7 |
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Fear the Mullet
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Looks like this guy did it to...................... http://www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm |
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| 2000Firefly1.3L | Feb 28 2009, 09:17 PM Post #8 |
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| dimetrodon | Feb 28 2009, 09:42 PM Post #9 |
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That white Fxi in Washington is really impressive. What a beautiful car. Hello Detroit? Anyone home? HELLLLOOOO ????? |
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| PushnFords | Mar 20 2009, 07:33 PM Post #10 |
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Honestly I think it would just be luck if it did help. The cylinder head mods that I have seen that work all involve making the air "tumble" as it enters the chamber so the atomized fuel is better mixed with the air. Some performance valves have a swirl cut on the intakes to help with this. I'd be concerned that the grooves would create hot spots and lead to early detonation. There is a lot of science and engineering that goes into combustion chamber design...if a carbide burr was all it takes to make a chamber burn better I'd think the OEMs would use it. JMO |
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| earthtoad | Mar 20 2009, 08:30 PM Post #11 |
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Good overview of Trevor Heath Geo Metro XFI.....Might that modified "Front" Bumper actually be a Modified "Rear" bumper ??.........Have a look at the rear bumper on the shot of the Spoiler....Hmmmmm.......... |
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| 87octane | Mar 23 2009, 02:55 AM Post #12 |
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drive it, break it, fix it, do it again
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Swirl describes the turbulence generated when entering the combustion chamber past the open intake valve during the intake stroke. Tumble is the turbulence generated as the piston approaches TDC on the firing stroke. Gill Massingil of the School of Automotive Machinists quotes that nobody can agree on the actual significance of swirl, especially since the act of measuring swirl modifies the actual amount of swirl achieved. However, tumble always works, and really well. I run 87 octane in a 9:1 air cooled using extreme tumble generated by dangerously close quench dimensions (approx .032 in the safe zone, discovered that .027 permitted the piston crown to kiss the combustion chamber at 7000 rpm and transfer the .060 engraving on the piston to the head... oops...) so I can confirm that tumble rules in detonation suppression. Singh grooves are probably contributing to tumble using little vortices aimed at the spark plug but previous comments about no sharp edges on the grooves would definitely apply. Hot spots bad, turbulent quench good.... I feel bad for FireDaug and his massacred grooves that had to be smoothed and rounded out, reducing quench area substantially, cuz quench is the holy grail of piston crown to combustion chamber interface. Nuthin like a dished piston to make ya rattle yer rings to pieces... |
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