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| cold start; geo wont start when cold | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 27 2009, 09:09 PM (4,160 Views) | |
| Bank2me | Aug 14 2017, 09:48 AM Post #61 |
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Thanks MR1 Kingsbury i appreciate it bud. Hopefully I can get her tuned in properly. |
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| suzukitom | Aug 14 2017, 12:54 PM Post #62 |
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Tom
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There are two black anti tamper caps on newer Metros equipped with the ISC motor. One is on the throttle stop screw, and the other is on the stop that the ISC motor plunger pushes against. Thanks to folks here like evmetro, freegeo and many others, I now regard the anti tamper caps as just a protective cap, as there isn't really a 100% way to verify that the cap hadn't ' been removed, an adjustment performed and reinstalled by a mechanic or previous owner. I have noticed that the most experienced GMF members seem to focus on root diagnosis and to adjust/repair, rather than remove and replace with new parts. The 'glue a dime onto the ISC stop' (or the ISC plunger tip) suggestion is a quick and cheap way to diagnose if your ISC motor's built in idle switch is still working. The dime compensates for simultaneous wear on a TBI that occurs at three places..(1) the throttle stop screw/ lever (2) the ISC plunger tip/stop screw (3) throttle plate. The ISC motor is quite durable. its ability to move its plunger back and forth rarely fails. I will post some more later about the ISC motor and it's built in idle switch ..have to get back to work right now.. |
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| Bank2me | Aug 14 2017, 01:37 PM Post #63 |
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Thanks Suzukitom sounds good. I appreciate the help!! |
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| suzukitom | Aug 14 2017, 09:57 PM Post #64 |
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Tom
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For additional reading and pictures about the procedure to adjust the throttle plate with the throttle body removed from the car... read starting from post #156 at: http://geometroforum.com/topic/8091153/11/ Otherwise the shorter writeup below describes how you might do the throttle plate adjustment with the throttle body still in the car. Just to finish the commentary on the ISC motor..the built in idle switch is not firmly contacting the ISC stop when the throttle is closed at idle. And the reason for that is the throttle plate is not fully closing due to wear. This is why your idle is too low during cold start and unstable when warm. The ISC dime test will confirm whether you should proceed to the next step. (If your cold idle speed becomes normal when the dime is inserted) If you prefer to the throttle plate adjustment with the throttle body in the car, you will need a 2.5 mm allen key, a 8 mm wrench, and a pair of pliers to remove the black plastic cap. ![]() EDIT: the ISC motor plunger must not be extended during a throttle plate adjustment. If it is, you may have to remove the ISC motor or loosen its 3 attachment torx bolts to the throttle body so that the ISC plunger does not prevent the throttle plate from moving freely during the adjustment. After the cap is wiggled off with pliers, insert the 2.5 mm allen wrench into the stop screw while loosening the locknut with the 8mm wrench. Note the position of the stop screw. You will need to turn the allen key counterclockwise.( facing the screw while standing at the front of the car). Depending on the amount of throttle plate wear, you may not need to turn the screw much. After each 1/8 turn rotate the throttle lever and let the return spring snap the throttle plate shut ( as if you were stepping on the gas pedal and releasing it). You will eventually notice the throttle plate sticking as you turn a little more counterclockwise. This tells you that the throttle plate is fully and tightly closed. Turn it the other way until the throttle plate can open and close smoothly. Look at the throttle stop screw tip. It should now be just making contact with the throttle lever, with no gap unless you open the throttle the slightest bit. You're almost done. Hold the allen key firmly and tighten the locknut with the 8 mm wrench. Press the black cap back on after you confirm your idle is normal. ![]() The picture below shows the three metric torx screws holding the ISC motor onto the back of the throttle body. I don't think you will need to replace the ISC. But this picture shows how it is attached. ![]() ![]() The picture of the TPS above shows the approximate position of the 2 phillips screws when adjusted to spec for many of the TBI cars I've worked on. This picture is only to help in case you accidentally moved it and need a rough starting position or are replacing it with a new one. ![]() The tiny ratchet and 8 mm wrench are good tools to have when working in close quarters. Edited by suzukitom, Aug 14 2017, 11:29 PM.
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| Bank2me | Aug 14 2017, 10:29 PM Post #65 |
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S uzukitom do you recommend I do that dime trick on the ISC first or do you recommend adjustmentof the throttle plate first? |
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| suzukitom | Aug 14 2017, 10:50 PM Post #66 |
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Tom
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Just editing the post still.. but yes.. do the dime test first.. if you don't want to glue a dime, and make it even easier find something the same thickness like a piece of stiff cardboard that will stay in place during your cold start test. |
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| Bank2me | Aug 14 2017, 10:57 PM Post #67 |
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Ok thanks Tom. And the dime should go right between the isc plunger and the throttle? I don't Want to glue it in the wrong spot lol |
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| suzukitom | Aug 14 2017, 11:09 PM Post #68 |
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Tom
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Reload the web page to see the completed post. The dime or similar thickness of a piece of stiff cardboard goes inbetween the ISC plunger and its stop circled in red
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| Bank2me | Aug 14 2017, 11:18 PM Post #69 |
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Ok thanks Tom that's were i thought but figured i better make sure i will try it tommorow. |
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| suzukitom | Aug 14 2017, 11:19 PM Post #70 |
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Tom
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Good luck! |
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| Bank2me | Aug 15 2017, 02:01 AM Post #71 |
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Thanks Tom!! I will keep you updated!! |
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| Bank2me | Aug 15 2017, 02:12 PM Post #72 |
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Ok so I glued the dime on then let it sit to dry then I started it up cold and it stayed running. Then after about 10 seconds it started shaking like hell. |
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| suzukitom | Aug 15 2017, 02:19 PM Post #73 |
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Tom
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Did it start up with a fast idle and then slow down? |
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| Bank2me | Aug 15 2017, 03:59 PM Post #74 |
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Yes somewhat for about 10 seconds then went super low it felt like it was going to shakeapart |
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| suzukitom | Aug 15 2017, 04:05 PM Post #75 |
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Tom
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The shaking is likely just the engine idling too slow. Does your car have a tachometer? When you feather the gas pedal can you get the engine to idle smoothly? |
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