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Smoother Ride
Topic Started: Apr 27 2009, 10:04 AM (922 Views)
Georacen09
New Member
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im looking to put a little stronger springs in the back of my 94 metro but have not been able to find any that will fit. The other option is wait jacks....any suggestions..........and mybe a little more rebound on the socks for the front and back
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Fireball 89
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2.4 Cylinders of Determination

Hi Georacer09-

For a smoother ride, I would use 155/80/13 tires for their tall side wall (air pressures on the low side), an alloy wheel for light weight (low rotational inertia and un-sprung weight), keep the stock springs (they are sized for the weight of the stock vehicle).

Your struts and shocks selection specifically for bump and rebound (for smoothness) will be the most critical.

Unfortunately, the Geo Metro is a low buck ride and strut and shock selection will be very limited. If you are willing to spend a lot of money for the Japanese market aftermarket "race/high performance/rally" brands such as Tein, then you will be able to tune (adjust) your struts and shocks for smoothness.

I'm sure other members on the forum will share their methods for taking the "cart-like" ride out of the Geo Metro.

Good luck and let us know what you find or decide.

Edward
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Dang, that's why it still drives like a go-kart! :evillol :drivin
Excellent suggestions by Fireball 89.
I went with KYB which were a upgrade certainly but you didn't loose the go-kart. Added a frame brace and am looking to get tower struts.
That is what you want Georacen09? To lose the go-cart or what exactly?
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98purpleswift
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Thanks, I was trying to figure out if I needed to replace or just go with it.(Shocks, struts ) Seems I am fine, The first owner took care of the car. The second did nothing best I can tell. Saved me another 200 on this topic. I really want to invest in my car. It pays for itself. The ride had me puzzled. Thanks again for the info, Knowledge etc.
98 swift
:hmm
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Georacen09
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Bad Bent
Apr 27 2009, 08:47 PM
Dang, that's why it still drives like a go-kart! :evillol :drivin
Excellent suggestions by Fireball 89.
I went with KYB which were a upgrade certainly but you didn't loose the go-kart. Added a frame brace and am looking to get tower struts.
That is what you want Georacen09? To lose the go-cart or what exactly?
well my driving is probly a little different from others (im 18 years old and have been in circle dirt track for about 11 years and now i am experimenting with road course) :drivin but i like the geo because of its short wheel base. i can usually take a 55 mph corner at 75 in my geo but the front of the car just goes straight to the top of the corner or doesnt want to stick. so any suggestions about suspension now.....lol i have some springs from a prorche boxster they are 800 pd springs but are like 1in to tall.....
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Fireball 89
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Georacen09
Apr 28 2009, 08:58 AM
(...experimenting with road course)...car just goes straight to the top of the corner or doesn't want to stick...
Okay, I understand acceleration, braking, left and right turns.

Generally small front wheel drive "economy" vehicles have most of their weight over the front wheels. This characteristic results in "understeer" when the vehicle DOESN'T rotate into a turn to the degree it should, based on the direction of the front wheels (front wheels are "cranked over" but the vehicle is still going straight).

"Oversteer" is when the vehicle DOES rotate into a turn in excess to the degree it should, based on the direction of the front wheels (front wheels just begin to "turn in" and the back end of the vehicle seems to come loose and rotate the vehicle really fast: spin out).

I'm not an expert on set up...

I would look toward how the 89-94 Suzuki Swift GTI is set up. Increased rim size, shorter sidewall for a larger tire footprint, different uprights with larger brakes, front and rear anti-roll bars. GTI springs, struts and shocks are calibrated for more aggressive handling, and a larger engine. All these components (systems) will bolt to your 94 Geo Metro.

I understand to minimize "understeer" you should move weight off of the front wheels toward the rear wheels. Batteries can be re sized to smaller and lighter equivalents and relocated over the rear wheel axle line. Remove the entire air conditioning system, power steering system. If you really "lose it", relocate your cooling system to the back of the vehicle, use smaller gauge copper wire in your electrical system or use aluminum wire. At this point your fabricating brackets out of aluminum or laying up and cooking carbon fiber for panels, covers, and brackets, glass windows are replaced with Plexiglas or equivalent.

"Understeer" can also be minimized with thoughtful suspension adjustments. Camber, caster, and toe are all important (front and rear), however, the stock Geo Metro, you will find, is severely lacking in these adjustments.

Your wheels should be the lightest you can afford. Think of them as flywheels. Your Geo Metro power plant is going to have to spin them up and your brakes are going to have to slow them down. A lighter flywheel is easier to spin up and slow down. Small light wheels will help in your acceleration and braking. In addition, small light wheels will be easier for your suspension to control, keeping the wheel in contact with the road surface, turning the vehicle left and right.

Other members have modified their rides. See how they have approached their goal. Pick and choose how you would like to move toward your goal. Have fun, be safe. Keep asking questions.

Edward
Edited by Fireball 89, Apr 29 2009, 10:12 AM.
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2000Firefly1.3L
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You can improve understeer by pulling the e-brake around turns.
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Woodie
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Anything you do to improve handling is going to make the ride quality worse. If you really mean smoother ride as in more comfortable, you're going to have to take a decision between the two, they're mutually exclusive.

There are lowering springs available for about $200 that will do quite a bit toward improving the handling. If done properly, cutting the springs is the exact same thing and costs nothing. Only problem is knowing exactly how much to cut, I had to redo my rears so it cost me $60 for a second set of rear springs. Either way, your new springs should be accompanied by stiffer struts. KYBs are an improvement for about $50 each. If you're really serious, Konis are the way to go, but they're $150 each. Taking out the rubber bushings and replacing with polyurethane makes everything more precise, a full set is about $200 but a crapload of labor to install. Strut tower braces are a good idea, the lower front brace really ties the whole front end together and helps support the part of our cars that usually rusts out first.

The last thing you mentioned is classic front wheel drive understeer, the manufacturers build them that way because it's considered safer for the average driver. This is usually tuned out using sway or anti-roll bars. A quick look underneath you car will reveal that it has NO anti-roll bars, a very rare thing in this day and age. Every other version of this car has them except the 89 - 94 Metro, so get your butt to the junkyard for some cheap custom upgrades. Most Metros don't have mounting brackets built into the floorpan so you're going to have to cobble something together. More rear bar helps eliminate understeer, but if you put on just a rear bar, you'll probably end up with oversteer, a trickier characteristic to correct in the heat of the moment. Your best bet would be to get a matched set from an early Swift or a 95 - 01 Swift/Metro.

If you're serious about getting better handling from your early Metro, the first thing you should address is the woefully inadequate brakes. They're barely safe for a stock Metro and when performance is increased the brakes are quickly overwhelmed. All Swifts and 95-01 Metros have a much better brake system, Swift GTIs have an even better four wheel disk setup. Changine to either one of these will also get you the bigger wheel studs you need for larger wheels. No one makes a 12" tire that's worth a damn so if you want good handling, they've got to go.


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Georacen09
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wow thanks for all the info it will really help... has anyone ever switched there metro/swift from a 4 lug to a 5 lug? if so i need to info
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2000Firefly1.3L
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Woodie
Apr 29 2009, 04:55 AM
Anything you do to improve handling is going to make the ride quality worse. If you really mean smoother ride as in more comfortable, you're going to have to take a decision between the two, they're mutually exclusive.

There are lowering springs available for about $200 that will do quite a bit toward improving the handling. If done properly, cutting the springs is the exact same thing and costs nothing. Only problem is knowing exactly how much to cut, I had to redo my rears so it cost me $60 for a second set of rear springs. Either way, your new springs should be accompanied by stiffer struts. KYBs are an improvement for about $50 each. If you're really serious, Konis are the way to go, but they're $150 each. Taking out the rubber bushings and replacing with polyurethane makes everything more precise, a full set is about $200 but a crapload of labor to install. Strut tower braces are a good idea, the lower front brace really ties the whole front end together and helps support the part of our cars that usually rusts out first.

The last thing you mentioned is classic front wheel drive understeer, the manufacturers build them that way because it's considered safer for the average driver. This is usually tuned out using sway or anti-roll bars. A quick look underneath you car will reveal that it has NO anti-roll bars, a very rare thing in this day and age. Every other version of this car has them except the 89 - 94 Metro, so get your butt to the junkyard for some cheap custom upgrades. Most Metros don't have mounting brackets built into the floorpan so you're going to have to cobble something together. More rear bar helps eliminate understeer, but if you put on just a rear bar, you'll probably end up with oversteer, a trickier characteristic to correct in the heat of the moment. Your best bet would be to get a matched set from an early Swift or a 95 - 01 Swift/Metro.

If you're serious about getting better handling from your early Metro, the first thing you should address is the woefully inadequate brakes. They're barely safe for a stock Metro and when performance is increased the brakes are quickly overwhelmed. All Swifts and 95-01 Metros have a much better brake system, Swift GTIs have an even better four wheel disk setup. Changine to either one of these will also get you the bigger wheel studs you need for larger wheels. No one makes a 12" tire that's worth a damn so if you want good handling, they've got to go.


Question about the GTi brakes - are they bigger than the current ones I have on the 2000 metro 4dr ? The braking is really firm thanks to new pads, zip-tie brake lines and new brake fluid. Although I noticed the car does not have the same stopping power as the nissan versa. But I noticed that its front rotors and drums are massive.
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Woodie
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2000Firefly1.3L
Apr 29 2009, 12:26 PM


Question about the GTi brakes - are they bigger than the current ones I have on the 2000 metro 4dr ? The braking is really firm thanks to new pads, zip-tie brake lines and new brake fluid. Although I noticed the car does not have the same stopping power as the nissan versa. But I noticed that its front rotors and drums are massive.
Yes, GTI front brakes are bigger and the rears are disks.

12" wheels = solid front disks, drum rears = quite lame brakes
13" wheels = vented fronts, drum rears = fairly good brakes, four doors get bigger rear drums than two doors.
14" wheels = bigger vented fronts, rear disks = very good brakes, easily upgraded even further using Honda calipers and rotors.

Look at your factory tire placard to see what wheels your car came with, that's what kind of brakes you have.


Edited by Woodie, Apr 30 2009, 05:16 AM.
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Fireball 89
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Thank you Woodie.

Edward
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