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Getting 61mpg going 56mph; lowering an insight raises fuel economy
Topic Started: Aug 8 2009, 10:50 PM (3,074 Views)
Coche Blanco
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Not sure about the MPG rating of an electric car. Like doesn't make since, unless it's a "normal" American.

40k is TOO DAMN MUCH good God how long will it take GM to learn.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

I agree with Woodie, that the old G10 would probably have been replaced with the 1.3L or even the 1.6L Suzuki engine if GM kept the Geo Metro. The poor little engine could not handle all the weight that would be added on with all the crazy federal safety requirements. Unless they brought back and redesigned the G10 Turbo :rocker

The Aveo weighs 3,000 pounds compared to an 1800 pound Metro :ermm:
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99metro
putt-putt

90metro
Aug 11 2009, 08:03 PM
What does the forum think about the Chevy Volt and the 230 mpg city EPA rating? $40k when they come out.

Chevy Volt
I don't like when KW is converted to MPG. It gives the impression that it uses fuel. The Volt does gave a gasoline motor, but I seriously doubt it will get 230 mpg on gasoline. I'd like to see it go 230 miles on one gallon of gasoline/electric combined without cheating (plugging in to recharge). What I'm saying is that if it claims 40 miles on electric, then it better get 190 miles per gallon on gasoline. At $40k? It won't sell much - just another expensive flop. I can buy a lot of repairs for putt-putt.

My 2 cents



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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Quote:
 
Volt drivers who cruise sensibly on smooth roads without much cargo — and who avoid exceeding 20 or 30 miles between charges — might fill up only rarely. But "for most people, it is not realistic to expect that kind of mileage in real-world driving," said Michelle Krebs, a senior analyst with the Web site. It was not immediately clear how GM reached the 230 mpg in city driving, but industry officials estimated the automaker's calculation took into consideration the Volt traveling 40 miles on the electric battery and then achieving about 50 mpg when the engine kicked in.
I get 52 mpg.

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Woodie
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I think the Chevy Volt would be great for $20,000, at twice that it can sit on the lot and rust.

Now that they've forced the manufacturers to clean up the exhaust to the point that you can't even commit suicide by running your car in a closed garage, they're mounting this big push to get cars switched over to burning coal instead of gasoline.

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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Yes, Woodie, I've wondered how much higher electric bills go with "hybrids."

That article said "and then achieving about 50 mpg when the engine kicked in." WHAT? :smackface

They could produce the same car for $15-20,000 and it would get about 50 mpg? :shake :ermm:
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vpoppv
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90metro
Aug 11 2009, 08:03 PM
What does the forum think about the Chevy Volt and the 230 mpg city EPA rating? $40k when they come out.

Chevy Volt
I should probably stay away from this as I LOVE to talk politics! I totally agree with everything Woodie says. As for the Volt, it is an acceptable compromise for the auto and oil industry: people will still need to visit their dealerships for the backbone of their operations "parts and service". At an entry price near $40K, it is still a little out of reach for the average consumer. I'm very curious to see how/if the Nissan Leaf will enter the US market....
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vpoppv
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Bad Bent
Aug 12 2009, 11:11 AM
Yes, Woodie, I've wondered how much higher electric bills go with "hybrids."

That article said "and then achieving about 50 mpg when the engine kicked in." WHAT? :smackface

They could produce the same car for $15-20,000 and it would get about 50 mpg? :shake :ermm:
Electric cars have a distinct advantage over Internal Combustion in that more energy gets used to power the car rather than creating heat. I think the idea of a hybrid is pretty silly: you're trying to shoehorn two completely different technologies into one car severely limiting the abilities of both. I'll leave it at that to conform to board rules, but a $15,000 50 mpg car would be great! :cheers
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Coche Blanco
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vpoppv
Aug 12 2009, 02:48 PM
Bad Bent
Aug 12 2009, 11:11 AM
Yes, Woodie, I've wondered how much higher electric bills go with "hybrids."

That article said "and then achieving about 50 mpg when the engine kicked in." WHAT? :smackface

They could produce the same car for $15-20,000 and it would get about 50 mpg? :shake :ermm:
Electric cars have a distinct advantage over Internal Combustion in that more energy gets used to power the car rather than creating heat. I think the idea of a hybrid is pretty silly: you're trying to shoehorn two completely different technologies into one car severely limiting the abilities of both. I'll leave it at that to conform to board rules, but a $15,000 50 mpg car would be great! :cheers
lol how about my 600 dollar 50mpg car?
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Woodie
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vpoppv
Aug 12 2009, 02:48 PM
Electric cars have a distinct advantage over Internal Combustion in that more energy gets used to power the car rather than creating heat. I think the idea of a hybrid is pretty silly: you're trying to shoehorn two completely different technologies into one car severely limiting the abilities of both. I'll leave it at that to conform to board rules, but a $15,000 50 mpg car would be great! :cheers

I'm very curious to see how/if the Nissan Leaf will enter the US market....
Yes, better efficiency AT THE CAR, but huge losses in generation and transmission. Half of all the electricity generated is lost in transmission. When you generate a kilowatt-hour and put it into a wire, half of it gets to the consumer and half of it simply dissipates into the air. A lot of inefficient heat is created when you charge the batteries too. That heat from the ICE come in handy sometimes too, any range you see quoted for an electric car will be halved in the winter when you need cabin heat or defrost.

I think the Nissan Leaf is supposed to be built in the USA, so I'd say yeah, they plan to sell it here. It's $35,000 with a 100 mile range though.

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Cobb
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Guys, be nice. First off, they have 500 dollar cars that get 50mpg. The problem is those cars are in India, China and do not meet our safety requirements. Europe has cars that already get 60+mpg by the same big 3 automanufactures here in the US. THe problems is safety, emissions and demand.

I work with top clients in the finance industry and I asked the burning question to an exec at one of the big 3 companies. He seemed offended when I popped the question as we had talked abut hybrids and I brought up an economy car that was produced for a fraction of the price vs what was offered.

He said the demand and customer feed back drove the model to be bigger, more power and thus lower economy as the result. If you follow any car line, it started off small, efficient and cheap, then over the years grew in size, performance, features, price and decreased in economy. Look at the honda civic, honda insight, toyota prius, scion xb, toyota camry, vw rabbit, just to name a few.

Keep in mind most hybrids are medium to full size vehicles if not suvs and if my insight was a gen 1 or the size and weight of a geo it would likely exceed 100mpg. As is it weights about 3 thousand lbs, seats 5.

Not counting labor, in parts alone off the shelf, you are talking 9 grand to make a metro a fully functional electric car with a top speed of 55mph, at the max 40 mile range that seats 2 and some cargo.

Having said that, I am sure a reasonible price can be reached for a car like the volt. Look at the honda, its 18 grand for the basic insight hybrid and about 20 for the newest prius. The honda has 10 year old technology repackaged, the prius some tweeking of similar 10 year old technology.
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Woodie
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Cobb
Aug 13 2009, 09:42 AM
Guys, be nice. First off, they have 500 dollar cars that get 50mpg. The problem is those cars are in India, China and do not meet our safety requirements.
Bring 'em over, why is someone else making decisions about MY safety? The crappiest car in the world is safer than any motorcycle and I'm trusted to take that decision if I like.
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Coche Blanco
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Woodie
Aug 14 2009, 05:59 AM
Cobb
Aug 13 2009, 09:42 AM
Guys, be nice. First off, they have 500 dollar cars that get 50mpg. The problem is those cars are in India, China and do not meet our safety requirements.
Bring 'em over, why is someone else making decisions about MY safety? The crappiest car in the world is safer than any motorcycle and I'm trusted to take that decision if I like.
I've always wondered that, like any car is safer than a motorcycle. I mean, you can barley ride a motorcycle in the rain, but cars don't have any problem with it.
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StevieC
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I had a Renault Laguna in England that got 55MPG on average, with careful driving you could push 70+. 5 star safety rating, faster than most gasoline powered cars I had owned. I LOVED that car. It was entirely stock too.

It was also very quiet, you wouldn't have known it was a diesel.
Edited by StevieC, Aug 15 2009, 04:46 PM.
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MetroMatt


In a way Honda didn't really copy Toyota with the Prius/insight thing. Honda already had the original insight out long before Toyota came out with the 2007 prius. Toyota totally copied the back on the original Insight. I think the Insight looks like a honda civic with a prius back half, whichh prius stole from the insight, so it's all Honda.
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