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Problem timing Econo Cam/ +10 sprocket
Topic Started: Aug 23 2009, 08:38 AM (1,367 Views)
hstuehmeyer
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Hello, I purchased a Econo Cam/ +10 timing sprocket from second hand from a member on team swift and I am having a problem timing it up. I am asuming that I have it a tooth off somewhere. Apparently when you install this you are suppost to be able to run at or close to full ignition timing advance, I am actually having to retard it by the looks of it to get it not to ping. Could you guys tell me where my timing is off?


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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Welcome to the forum, hstuehmeyer! :coffee
I don't believe that is the timing mark for the camshaft pulley.
The pulleys I got from Suprf1y had a machinists paint on the and a mark closer to the cam gear tooth.

Please take a picture of the entire cam gear and PM Suprf1y for instructions.
For pictures to appear you need to have the [IMG] URL look like this:
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hstuehmeyer
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Bad Bent
Aug 23 2009, 08:57 AM
Welcome to the forum, hstuehmeyer! :coffee
I don't believe that is the timing mark for the camshaft pulley.
The pulleys I got from Suprf1y had a machinists paint on the and a mark closer to the cam gear tooth.

Please take a picture of the entire cam gear and PM Suprf1y for instructions.
For pictures to appear you need to have the [IMG] URL look like this:
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Thanks for welcoming me to the form :cheers

Also at one point in time the sprocket had a 10+ marked on it but it dissapeared right before me and my father installed it :( , I guess it got brushed off somehow.

The +10 hole on this pully is drilled on the exact oposite side of the stock one, also that hole that I used to time it up has been drilled by someone, it is not stock

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Also, I know that how you add a picture to a thread.(But thanks for the tip) The reason I link to the pictures is because they are so big and I would like to retain the quailty of them.

Thanks for the help so far :thumb
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hstuehmeyer
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update: I just tried moving it a tooth back and it seems to be doing a lot better. I am timing it up now we will see what happens.
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Then, that's the mark, I stand corrected.
So, if it is pinging you are one tooth advanced, poor low rpm performance with good power above 4-5000 rpm is one tooth retarded. The distributor needs to be advanced. If need be I use a timing light to make sure, don't trust my "diagnostic hearing." :'( Now my 215/350 and +10 combination doesn't seem to like more than 12 degrees advanced. The Wife only likes 8 deg. BTDC. I had to try twice to get the Wife's timing marks correct. :shake

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Dallas


the drilled timing hole on the outside should be 180* opposite the hole thats drilled in the center for the cam to attach to
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

I did the same thing and had the cam off one tooth.
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hstuehmeyer
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Bad Bent
Aug 23 2009, 12:30 PM
Then, that's the mark, I stand corrected.
So, if it is pinging you are one tooth advanced, poor low rpm performance with good power above 4-5000 rpm is one tooth retarded. The distributor needs to be advanced. If need be I use a timing light to make sure, don't trust my "diagnostic hearing." :'( Now my 215/350 and +10 combination doesn't seem to like more than 12 degrees advanced. The Wife only likes 8 deg. BTDC. I had to try twice to get the Wife's timing marks correct. :shake

update: When the timing belt was moved a tooth back it seemed like it was dead until around 3000 rpm and then I started to get some power. But when I had it moved back I was able to advance the distributor. Now that I moved it forward it pings unless I retard it. I wonder if I somehow got the crank timing off?
Edited by hstuehmeyer, Aug 23 2009, 07:35 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Mine was a "simple" plug and play... pull the pulleys, valve cover, cam bolts. slide cam out, slide cam in, reassemble, don't even think of rotating the Distributor.

Here is Johnny Mullet's "How to" camshaft swap. CLICK HERE

I've covered the basics, so what's missing?
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hstuehmeyer
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Update: Well since I had better luck going back a tooth I figured I would try going back another, now it barelly runs, lol :D . So now I am going to put it back the way it was(a tooth forward from this). At least it works and I can advance the distributor some, but unfortuanley like I said before, it doesn't really have any low end grunt.(engine doesn't seem to respond good until around 3000) Also if I move it two teeth forward from where it is now, I have to retard the igintion timing or it will ping under load.

Also here are some other things that might be helpful to know about my car,

Gas-93 octane
Tires-155/80 R13
Tranny- Should be the original vert tranny( I do 3500rpm@65mph)
Edited by hstuehmeyer, Aug 23 2009, 09:29 PM.
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mwebb
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FOG


it is a pain to check but , if you remove the center bolt holding the crankshaft pulley for the timing belt ,
you can remove the the timing belt sprocket and check to see if the , wood ruff key is missing or has been damaged somehow so that the crankshaft gear is

NOT correctly oriented on the crankshaft , not to common but it does happen on asian cars
torque specification for that bolt is 96 ftlbs

intake vacuum
should be about 20 to 21" at sea level at hot idle if cam and crankshaft timing are set correctly.
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hstuehmeyer
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mwebb
Aug 23 2009, 11:00 PM

it is a pain to check but , if you remove the center bolt holding the crankshaft pulley for the timing belt ,
you can remove the the timing belt sprocket and check to see if the , wood ruff key is missing or has been damaged somehow so that the crankshaft gear is

NOT correctly oriented on the crankshaft , not to common but it does happen on asian cars
torque specification for that bolt is 96 ftlbs

intake vacuum
should be about 20 to 21" at sea level at hot idle if cam and crankshaft timing are set correctly.
Yea, I am going to take the sprocket off and make sure everything is right.
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