 Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
| Doing Lower Control arms with Complications | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 31 2009, 04:35 PM (631 Views) | |
| nerys | Oct 31 2009, 04:35 PM Post #1 |
Grr
|
I had to change my lower control arm to pass inspection on my 94 Xfi I looked underneath and went WOW 4 freaking bolts. This is going to be cake and it should be. alas its never that easy. I had one seizure and one broken blind weld. SO I figure I should take pictures of the process and post it here as a How to to help others who encounter this kind of problem. Jack the car up right from the middle below the radiator taking both wheels off the ground. USE JACK STANDS PLEASE!! Reference this diagram http://www.nerys.com/94metro/control_arm.gif Basically removal is very easy. There is one bolt either 14mm or 15mm holding the ball joint into place. in this diagram its part #7 it holds the ball joint (Part #9) via a GROOVE in the ball joint shaft. Remove the NUT from the end of this bolt push UP on the control arm and wiggle the bolt out. Use a hammer to lightly TAP the control arm from the top POPPING it out of the retainer. At this point as long as your careful not to move the wheel too much NOTHING will come loose or eject itself. (half shaft etc..) At this point you remove the two bolts holding the bracket Part #6 holding the rear bushing part #4 in place. I will get back to the trouble with this later. Then you remove parts #13 and #12 holding the front bushing into place Slide the control arm off. Slide the NEW control arm on and reverse the entire process. When you get to the ball joint last you will need to tap it from under neath to get it into place. slide in the #7 bolt and wiggle tap the control arm to get it to slide all the way in. Thats it. your done. in theory it takes longer to jack the car up and put it on stands than it does to replace the part. Easy right? This is where easy stops and aggravation begins. First the FRONT bushing. I just finished this. I will have proper pictures online later tonight. The Front bushing part #11 is built into into the control arm. INSIDE the bushing is a metal tube that is permanently attached to the Bushing. This slides over the Front Mounting Bracket Part #1 Well mine was not nice. it has detached from the rubber after it welded itself to the front mounting bracket. This means I could not put the NEW control arm on. So I had to REMOVE the front mounting bracket via the 2 bolts holding it in. the metal PLATE on this bracket has its corner bend up to RETAIN the bolts and keep them from coming lose (that would be bad really bad) use a screw driver and hammer to wedge in there and bend them back out of the way. use a 19mm socket on a VERY large breaker bar. USE PB penetrant or something similar and take your time. it took me a CRAP TON of force to crack them. and it was creaky and loud but once they got going it was a lot easier. Keep spraying the penetrant until it comes out with a normal ratchet. Once you remove these 2 bolts and the retainer bolt on the other side of the bushing it will slide right out. I attached a pair of Vicegrips to the bracket and another to the offending tube right up against the washer that is stuck on because of the tube. if you can compress the vicegrips with your hands your doing it wrong its not tight enough. Trust me :-) you need it tight enough that you need your FOOT to lock them into place. spray some PB on both ends of the offending tube and take your propane torch to it (pb is flammable so be careful) heat it up REALLY good really hot. then take a can of compressed air upside down and hose it down OR dunk it into a bucket of water for 30 seconds. Heat it up again till its super hot turn off the torch and spray more PB (its FLAMMABLE and SO IS THE CAN OF AIR !!!) Do this one more time NOW take your 2 pairs of vgrips and see if you can ROTATE it yet. if you can spray more PB and keep rotating spray more pb rotate. Heat it again spray more PB rotate. When it gets easier to rotate put it bold side down on the ground and start pounding your grips to PUSH the offending tube off. took me about 10 minutes and I got it off !! I pounded the washer straight again while it was still hot and tossed everything in a bucket of water to cool down. (it will burn the hell out of your fingers DO NOT touch it even the washer) Yes I know from experience :-) Reassembled put it all back and I am good to go. Well not quite but that problem is solved. OK onto the second problem. remember part #6 holding the rear bushing part #4 in place? well that one gave me a problem too. those 2 bolts are threaded through 2 BLIND nuts welded inside the frame body there. Well one of them the weld gave way. GRRRRR so its half in half out and spinning. alas its not easy access on the inside passenger foot well as there is a body panel on the inside as well creating a cavity. More details on this later as I solve this problem but its looking like I will have to DRILL a hole through the inside passenger foot well body panel to gain access to the broken weld blind nut inside. What I am going to do is use a drill to put a hold through this via the GOOD hole where I did get the bolt out without proble. its 2.5 inches or so from one bolt to the other. once I have one hole I will know where to drill for the other hold. Wrench inside and out tighten it back up and reweld the blind nut. I will have pics of the Front Mounting bracket bushing problem later tonight and hopefully if the damned rain stops I will get pics of the rear bushing bolt repair as well. More to come! |
 |
 
|
| carmech97 | Oct 31 2009, 06:46 PM Post #2 |
Backyard Mechanic
  ![]](http://209.85.62.24/static/1/pip_r.png)
|
Hi Nerys, If you want to see what the two blind welds look like in more detail, have a look at my project: http://geometroforum.com/topic/2353134/1/#new |
|
|
|
| nerys | Oct 31 2009, 09:07 PM Post #3 |
|
Grr
|
Ok cool. your clearly missing something in those shots. the floor pans are gone? ie are the blind nuts accessable from INSIDE the passenger cabin like I suspect IE will I be able to drill a hole through the inside floor pan and SEE the nut or is it farther forward? because of the missing body panels in your pictures I am not able to visualize a reference frame for what I am looking at. I REALLY hope I can access them from inside or its going to be a royal pain :-) also a little worried now. Am I seeing that right its NOT a nut on the inside there? ie nothing I can put a WRENCH on ? I assumed I was going to find a welded HEX nut on the inside. should I CUT the bolt off and replace it with nut bolt and washer? |
|
|
|
| wikityler | Oct 31 2009, 10:29 PM Post #4 |
Some say...
|
I can't seem to comprehend what the problem is, but have some FSM candy: (click for full res.)    
|
|
|
|
| carmech97 | Nov 1 2009, 12:26 AM Post #5 |
|
Backyard Mechanic
|
It would be easier to access the nuts from the wheel well area. The one picture where I was at the point where 'all the rusty stuff is cut off' clearly illustrates the location of those 2 tube nuts, so named due to the fact that you can't put a wrench on them. This is a shot of the wheel well area. (all the front end components are removed) You could cut a section of metal out in the area just below where the rack-and-pinion is (you don't see it in my pic cause it has been removed) in order to gain access, crack out the broken tube nut, and then weld a plate in there that has a nut welded on to it, to give something for the bolt to thread into. To go from inside the car would be a major PITA because the 2 tube nuts are too far away from the floor board area. Then, once finished, you would then weld back in the piece of metal that you cut out. Hope this helps you a little. Do you have access to a welder? |
|
|
|
| nerys | Nov 1 2009, 12:43 AM Post #6 |
|
Grr
|
damn. I would SWEAR they are just inside the passenger door. I am going to reverse drill one anyway and "see" where the drill bit shows up on the inside. maybe the 94 is different from the 98 in this respect? I do not have a welder or know how to weld (no money to get a welder but its on my todo list) but my mechanic does weld. |
|
|
|
| duff_remle | Nov 1 2009, 11:04 AM Post #7 |
|
Member
|
nerys carmechs pics are the tube nuts that hold #1 in your diagram to the metros unibody. The nut that broke loose in yours is further back to attach the rear bushing of the control arm to the unibody. I have read of another person with this problem. That person cut a hole in their floorpan to access the nut as you were thinking of doing. I dont think they gave any specific measurements of where they made the hole. Drilling a pilot hole thru the bolt hole is a good idea and will come up in the cabin of the car. Edited by duff_remle, Nov 1 2009, 11:19 AM.
|
|
|
|
| nerys | Nov 1 2009, 01:04 PM Post #8 |
|
Grr
|
yeah i think I found it. I have to go through TWO SHEETS of metal to get to it (my drill is recharging i broke my plug in drill and don't have the $20 to get another I need the $25 I have to get my new rims put on tommorrow :-) I used a hole saw and drilled a bunch of holes in the floor pan inside the car but there is ANOTHER layer of metal before I actually get to the Blind nuts. I opened it enough that I can see the "hump" where the rear bushing "seats" into place and I found another hole through the frame so I have a reference point now on the inside. once I recharge I can drill another hole into the second layer of metal and that should give me access to the blind nut. HOPEFULLY I will do so with enough accuracy that I can clamp a pair of vicegrips onto the blind nut and re tighten it. Once its re tightened it I will be safe to drive. later this week I will have my mechanic hit it with a welder to secure it and then I will have to work on repairing the holes I put into the floor pan. I guess I could leave it as is but I am concerned over structural integrity. while nothing is really load bearing where I drilled the INSIDE metal is a little load bearing and I want it as strong as possible. I will take pics once I get inside. I ended up not being able to drill a pilot hole. the INSIDE metal plane is not parallel its angled the drill bit will not bite without damaging the threads of the one good hole so I can not risk that. Edited by nerys, Nov 1 2009, 01:05 PM.
|
|
|
|
| nerys | Nov 1 2009, 10:54 PM Post #9 |
|
Grr
|
ALL FIXED !! all front end clunking sounds are now gone and it rides nicer too! I finally got through both sheets of metal and to my EXTREME satisfaction I found a SQUARE nut! a 14mm open ended wrench fit this and I was able to RETIGHTEN the bolt! My little mouse is safe again! :-) I will have my mechanic spot weld the nut again so avoid any future issues. I also did the drivers side control arm today. I am glad I did. while the ball joint seemed ok the bushing was toast. this one was also "siezed" to the Front Mounting Bracket but the rubber had not given way. so instead the WHOLE BUSHING rotated and not very easily (this is likely why it rides so much nicer now on the front end) I had to tear the bushing off and torch the living hell out of the bushing tube to get it off the bracket but after 30-40 minutes of heating cooling pb heating cooling pb repeat I got it to come off and the car re assembled without complication after that. all the bolts on this side came out and went back in without fuss. I will check the bolts again in 2 days to make sure there all snug and call it a success. I will post pictures in the next few days and also details on PRECISELY where the bolts are on the inside so you don't have to drill so many holes like I did :-) Thankfully its all under the rug so to speak :-) I think next weekend I will remove both front mounting brackets (you can do this without removing the control arms) and put some graphite on the shafts to facilitate lubrication and help stop it from seizing I hope in the future though it will be several years before I need to worry about these again. Is there any reason NOT to do this? Edited by nerys, Nov 1 2009, 10:56 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Woodie | Nov 2 2009, 06:48 AM Post #10 |
|
It doesn't pivot there, all the suspension motion comes from flexing of the rubber. When you wail away at that nut (on a car our size, 92 lb-ft is wailing away) the inner tube is pinched between the two washers. Many of them even have teeth cut into the outer ends of the tube so that they are locked solid. Good idea to put some grease in there to prevent rust for next time you have to take it apart, but that's not a bearing. |
|
|
|
| duff_remle | Nov 2 2009, 11:42 AM Post #11 |
|
Member
|
The only reason not to is the risk of breaking one up in the hole. If there's a seized one (or more) & you cant get the torque required down via heat and/or repeated apps of pblaster I'd leave that one (or more) be. Those brackets are about a half inch thick so the threads on the bolt dont start until the unibody above the bracket. You can try spraying some pblaster or other penetrant on there every day this week make sure to spray between the unibody and bracket, that may help. I've found it works best to heat the unibody around where the bolts go thru it more rather than the bracket or bolt head. carmech97's pics are good to see those bolts attach. An oxy/acet torch will definitely have enough heat to break them loose, not sure about a mapp/propane torch. I always dope them up good with antiseize before I put them back. Edited by duff_remle, Nov 2 2009, 11:45 AM.
|
|
|
|
| nerys | Nov 2 2009, 11:04 PM Post #12 |
|
Grr
|
mine pivots there. The difference in the pivoting motion old one and new one where the bushing rotates smoothly is night and day and the ride performance proves this out. Thankfully those bolts came out without a problem so I know removing them again won't be an issue. yes pb blaster in combination with heat is very effective :-) |
|
|
|
| nerys | Nov 7 2009, 04:08 AM Post #13 |
|
Grr
|
Finally got the pics uploaded! http://www.nerys.com/94metro |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Metro Tech · Next Topic » |
1:58 PM Sep 3
