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| 10 Degree Advanced Camshaft Pulley | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 4 2009, 09:55 AM (6,125 Views) | |
| Dallas | Nov 5 2009, 12:30 PM Post #16 |
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the hole is completely 180* out of stock phase. the mark you normally use to line up the timing is not the one to use if you use the re-drilled hole. you COULD have a few different settings on the same cam gear too, have them drilled 90* out of phase. pretty unnecessary since +10 is what you want for economy |
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| Cobb | Nov 5 2009, 11:27 PM Post #17 |
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BANNED
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mwebb, what if the car has knock control? I know the scion guys went over this time and time again and sai preminum did increase fuel economy as it allowed the engien to take more timming and that gave more power, so less rpms were needed. THe car has no distributor and was electrinically controlled. As for the cost, no the few mpg they claimed you got did not make economical sense for the price of fuel reg vs preminum. When I had my supercharged tacoma, it ran the best with shell v power. Only thing better than that was a tank of 93 octane with a bottle of 104 octane booster on top of it. |
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| JohnDN | Nov 7 2009, 09:00 PM Post #18 |
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Hmm, additonal power can't change gear ratio. So if it made more power, less throttle may be needed (and therefore a little less fuel), but your RPMs would stay the same because that is dependent on the speed the transmission is in 1-5, the final drive of the vehicle, and the size of the tires. |
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| Bad Bent | Nov 8 2009, 12:36 AM Post #19 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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That's my philosophy also. Just need to keep my foot out of it and I'm fine.
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| mwebb | Nov 8 2009, 12:54 AM Post #20 |
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FOG
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..."mwebb, what if the car has knock control? I know the scion guys went over this time and time again and said premium did increase fuel economy as it allowed the engine to take more timming and that gave more power, so less rpms were needed. THe car has no distributor and was electronically controlled."... .................................... if there is a knock sensor and a feedback system in place that can push timing advanced and keep it to the optimum amount of advance and retard ignition timing ONLY as needed per input from the knock sensor then the equation regarding premium fuel changes but there is no STOCK geo metro with factory installed knock sensors and theory says - using premium fuel in a STOCK geo metro with STOCK compression ratio should NOT provide any benefit and DOES NOT provide any benefit in fuel economy in my car as tested by me in fact fuel economy is degraded by the use of premium fuel and advancing ignition timing past specification using top tier fuel 93 octane NYS blend E10 Shell premium the E10 is claimed but may be some other value , i can not measure it i live in an EPA NON attainment area and the fuel is tampered with to protect us from ourselves to the detriment of fuel economy for the alleged (but UN-documented) benefit of the environment . 3tech economy cam , +10 cam wheel , stock G10 engine |
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| 3tech | Nov 8 2009, 11:10 AM Post #21 |
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What specification? Surely not stock. You can definitely pick up power, efficiency, and MPG by running timing advanced more than the stock setting. Whether you'll need premium fuel, depends on a number of things, like compression ratio, A/F ratio, weight of the car, gearing, and condition of the motor, to mention a few. |
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| mwebb | Nov 9 2009, 01:22 PM Post #22 |
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FOG
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that s right on my car with a +10 camshaft wheel and a 3tech economy cam NY state blend e10 from a NON attainment area , stock compression ratio stock every thing except as noted above no audible "ping" as suggested .... using shell top tier 93 octane fuel and advancing base ignition timing to 27 degrees btdc and bringing it back 5 degrees each subsequent tank of fuel shows fuel mileage drops as in goes down as in gets lower as compared to shell 87 octane top tier fuel with base ignition timing set to 9 degrees btdc no DTC - sum of fuel trims is / are within +/- 5% from zero trim adjustment intake vacuum 20" and steady smooth |
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| Coche Blanco | Nov 9 2009, 02:43 PM Post #23 |
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Troll Certified
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Is there a picture of this? |
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| Potter | Nov 9 2009, 07:12 PM Post #24 |
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Col. Potter
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me too... some times im gonna need the extra oomph, and since its getting the extra oomph constantly if i keep the foot outtat the carburator (well in our cases the throttle bodys) it wont hinder mileage if nothing else it will help due to less strain, think when your under powered you give it more gas... hince the theory, but i would like to do the high comp. pistons, stroker kit, ECU chip... all the wonderfull goodies that SRD sells.
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| rmcelwee | Nov 9 2009, 11:21 PM Post #25 |
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From my engine rebuild page: |
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| Coche Blanco | Nov 10 2009, 12:02 AM Post #26 |
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Troll Certified
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guess mine is close
Edited by Coche Blanco, Nov 10 2009, 12:04 AM.
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| Woodie | Nov 10 2009, 06:04 AM Post #27 |
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There are some G10's that will not ping no matter where the distributor is set, they are the anomaly not the norm. Personally, I think there's something wrong with them, like low compression or something, but I have no proof. Normal behavior for ANY engine is that advanced ignition timing will make it run better until it knocks, normal behavior for a G10 is ping starts somewhere between 10 and 14 degrees advance. The fact that yours doesn't shows that you should find out why, not that 95% of us are wrong. The idea that your engine will even run with 27 degrees advance is ludicrous, the computer adds at least ten to that. Seems strange that you trust Superf1y to grind you a cam but reject his personal experience with ignition timing. He's forgotten more about G10's than you and I know combined. |
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| rmcelwee | Nov 10 2009, 08:25 AM Post #28 |
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I was never able to get any audible ping from my G10 either. Not sure why. Got scared with running the high advance and put it down some (I think I am around 12 now with a +10 cam and economy grind but I cannot remember). The lack of ping has definitely had me scratching my head. I have no idea if the engine is running like another G10 because I have nothing to compare it too. FWIW, my compression is 175 across the board on a 2K fresh rebuild. |
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| mwebb | Nov 10 2009, 11:38 AM Post #29 |
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FOG
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...."The fact that yours doesn't shows that you should find out why, not that 95% of us are wrong. The idea that your engine will even run with 27 degrees advance is ludicrous, the computer adds at least ten to that. Seems strange that you trust Superf1y to grind you a cam but reject his personal experience with ignition timing. He's forgotten more about G10's than you and I know combined.".... this is not about lack of trust or credibility - i am not attempting to insult anyone . my test results are what they are and i stand by them it is not like i am a complete puddinghead and have no idea of theory and have no understanding of the test equipment needed to arrive at my results . what you are seeing is only scratching the surface of my abilities , but that is not really relevant. i suspect a variable that no one has control over is fuel quality in my area , i have not figured out how to prove that yet except by weighing a gallon of fuel and putting the value up here so someone can weigh a gallon of fuel from somewhere else to compare my value to differences in ethanol content will affect the threshold of "ping" i have some accurate scales used to weigh the powder charge used ammunition assembly and lesser accuracy scales to weigh AC system charge weights ............................................... many forum members have suggested advancing base ignition timing until the stop. on my car , the stop is 27 degrees BTDC measured . their engines run at that value , so does mine ? is that ludicrous ? not to me . to me it seems my results are consistent with the other posters . ..................................................... anyway , the 3tech economy cam does provide a noticeable difference in driveability at lower rpms so far i do not have the expected OVERALL boost in fuel economy . i can pin my MPG software at 60mpg at 45 mph at cruise on flat open stretches with no traffic to interfere .... late at night . and the advance the base ignition timing and use premium fuel theory when implemented in my car . DOES NOT IMPROVE anything in my car using fuel from my area . i am seeking the reason why that is true , that is all |
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| starscream5000 | Nov 11 2009, 10:47 AM Post #30 |
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Got 70 MPG?
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Maybe you should try some Shell gas? I used to go to WalMart and get gas. It was advertised as having 10% Ethanol in it. Shell does not advertise this at all. You may take that at face value all you want, but please consider this: I've ran both types of gas in two completely different cars already 1. 2003 Eclipse GT - WalMart fuel - ~28 MPG - Shell fuel - ~31MPG 2. 1995 Geo Metro - WalMart fuel - ~48 MPG - Shell fuel - ~52MPG These are both averages with several tanks of fuel from both types of gas used. Needless to say I stopped using WalMart fuel quite some time ago... Woodie. I do not think you're taking into consideration the fact that once the cam and cam gear are put in the car it is no longer a NORMAL motor, so guessing when it will ping and when it won't is out of the window as too many variables have been thrown in to even compare an Eco tuned motor to a stock motor. I do believe suprfly even states that once you use an eco cam and +10 cam gear you can safely advance the distributor all the way.... |
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That's my philosophy also. Just need to keep my foot out of it and I'm fine.

me too... some times im gonna need the extra oomph, and since its getting the extra oomph constantly if i keep the foot outtat the carburator (well in our cases the throttle bodys) it wont hinder mileage if nothing else it will help due to less strain, think when your under powered you give it more gas... hince the theory, but i would like to do the high comp. pistons, stroker kit, ECU chip... all the wonderfull goodies that SRD sells.
2:07 PM Jul 11