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Top Tier Gas; From the horses mouth
Topic Started: Nov 20 2009, 10:18 PM (6,965 Views)
bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

They are something :popcorn
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Woodie
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mwebb
Nov 23 2009, 01:37 PM
use top tier fuel or your system will punish you ,
the difference between top tier and F.R.E.D.'s gas is larger than detergent
that is a fact .
what you choose to do with this fact is up to you

when you search on the internet ,
do not exclude those things from your search that do not agree with your current position
or you will never find what is real .

do not imagine a few hours searching on the internet trumps a lifetime of experience and training and education , i don't .

if you search
you can conclusively prove there is a civilization on the dark side of the moon that is not viewable by the mortals on earth .
does that make it real ?
I use the cheapest crap I can find and plop in a bottle of Techron every 30K miles, never had a problem. Most fuel problems have to do with water or crap in the station's tanks and that is 100% up to the station owner. More likely at a cheapo station, but just as possible anywhere, any quality of fuel.

There is no dark side of the moon so it's going to be hard to prove that theory.

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metroschultz
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Please just call me; "Schultz"

Your talk about F.R.E.D.'s gas reminds me of an old Army achronim.

F_ck_ng
Ridiculaous
Electrical
Device

Have fun boys, I know I have had enjoyment reading this thread.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

It appears that neither one of you realizes the other won't give up till you concede he is right.
Remember;
A smart man is Sometimes wrong.
A stupid man is Never wrong.
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Potter
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Col. Potter

bogs
Nov 23 2009, 10:54 PM
They are something :popcorn
Hey can i join you guys? :popcorn I brought beer :cheers :beer

yes this is entertaining but.... this is a discussion forum not a bickering forum. we are here to share knowledge and build some awsome metros. if we cannot discuss this in a civil manner with out getting out of control, then most likely John and the Modorators will end up locking this and stop gas discussions completely.... not trying to outstep my bounds, just warning... ive seen topics get locked and deleted due to this.

so lets all play nice and have fun

honestly ive been reading through this and it dosn't make much since to me TTF??? to me gas is gas... you have 87 89 93 pump gas then you have higher octane fules for raceing... honestly if its gonna ultamately save me money or make me go faster ill just stick to whatever gas i can get. if i want detergents ill put aditives in the tank.... ethonol... im not worried about most ive ever heard it do is gum up fuel lines and cats and since i run detergents through im not worried about it.
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iamgeo
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Big League

Just received a reply from Chevron.

Quote:
 
RE: Top Tier Gas
...
From:
Marketing Fuel Tech Service <fueltek@chevron.com>
...
Add to Contacts
To: iamtechnogod@yahoo.com
Cc: COMMENT <Comment@chevron.com>

Robert,

Your inquiry has been forwarded to us here at Chevron Fuels Technical Service.

Chevron gasolines may contain up to 10% ethanol by volume, depending on the area you live in. Where ethanol blended gasoline is sold, it is present in all three grades.

In concert with Federal and State regulations we continue to blend ethanol into retail gasoline in increasing amounts.

Again, in some areas of the United States, depending on regulatory requirements, Chevron or Texaco gasolines may at some times contain ethanol at up to 10 volume percent. We regret that we cannot be specific as regards timing or location because of the complexity and changing nature of gasoline distribution and regulatory obligations.



Unfortunately, we do not have a listing of service stations that carry do not carry E-10 gasoline. We understand that some customers prefer certainty in their selection of gasoline formulation, and regret that we cannot be of more help in that regard.

We can, however, assure the high quality and performance of Chevron gasoline, irrespective of formulation. Any formulation of Chevron or Texaco branded gasolines are Top Tier with Techron.

You may contact your State government for details on its ethanol programs.

The following matrix outlines various actions that affect ethanol production and marketing. See Retail Pump Labeling Requirement. (Ethanol)

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/policy/actions/statehttp://www.ethanolrfa.org/policy/actions/state

This list can guide you for each States retail pump labeling requirement.

Most/all auto manufacturers approve use of ethanol to the 10 vol % maximum. (The use of ethanol blended in gasoline to a limit of 10.0 vol%)

Modern vehicles are designed to perform well on up to 10 percent ethanol.



Quote:
 
we are here to share knowledge


Exactly what I am trying to do.

Quote:
 
if we cannot discuss this in a civil manner with out getting out of control, then most likely John and the Modorators will end up locking this and stop gas discussions completely


I have been civil.



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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Well, Chevron still has my vote, they certainly seem to have hired an informative PR department.
Just following his link showy how the States have it messed up. No unity. :'(

It's those damn modern vehicles. :smackface :lol

Thanks, iamgeo. :thumb
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nerys
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Grr

I would drop dead. Shove dirty vicegrips down my own throat and rip out anything I can get them to clamp on and then EAT IT again before I buy chevron gas :-)

I don't care if they were the last place on earth to get non ethanol gas. I would not care if they offered me FREE GAS. I would rather DIE than voluntarily stop in a chevron or texaco gas station.

GM sold the large format NIMH patent to texaco/chevron. Thats enough cause for me to never give then a stinking cent of my money ever again.

I will PUSH my car to the next station first. I will walk HOURS to another station before I get chevron or texaco gas.

its also a DAMNED good thing I did not know my GEO was a GM vehicle before I bought it or I would not have bought it even used (and would not have found out its actually a suzuki which makes me feel a lot better)
Edited by nerys, Nov 25 2009, 12:29 AM.
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z34-5speed
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Formerly "Tech Certified"

nerys
Nov 25 2009, 12:27 AM
I would drop dead. Shove dirty vicegrips down my own throat and rip out anything I can get them to clamp on and then EAT IT again before I buy chevron gas :-)

I don't care if they were the last place on earth to get non ethanol gas. I would not care if they offered me FREE GAS. I would rather DIE than voluntarily stop in a chevron or texaco gas station.

GM sold the large format NIMH patent to texaco/chevron. Thats enough cause for me to never give then a stinking cent of my money ever again.

I will PUSH my car to the next station first. I will walk HOURS to another station before I get chevron or texaco gas.

its also a DAMNED good thing I did not know my GEO was a GM vehicle before I bought it or I would not have bought it even used (and would not have found out its actually a suzuki which makes me feel a lot better)
What's with all the GM hate going on?

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chads4dr


The Chevy symbol in the Geo Emblem didnt hint to the origin??? :) :D JUst Kidding ^o)

Posted Image



Government Motors, Generous Motors, Generic Motors, General Motors, whatever you want to call them, have made many shady descisions and done questionable actions, even going back 50-60 years, but every auto manufacture does SHADY stuff, heck our teacher worked for Toyota for 20 years and said they are one of the most secretive and sneaky companies hes ever worked for.
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nerys
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Grr

GM made the EV1. they SOLVED the BEV problems COMPLETELY. with there tech we could be buyign $13,000 100mile plus range 4 door mid size sedan's right now that almost never fail will last longer than you will keep them.

they realized how much PROFIT this would cost them and KILLED the project with prejiduce. Then to make sure no one else could do it they sold the patent to texaco/chevron and enlisted the help of our government via tax credits to foster the SUV revolution to hammer the nail in the coffin of the BEV.

so yeah. I hate them a lot. I never "looked" at the geo emblem before infact until YOUR picture I did not know it had the chevy logo. Hell I did not know it was a chevy till my title came in and it said Chevrolet. :-)

sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I will be debadging my car and maybe even put a suzuki logo on it just for spite :-)
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Potter
 
Hey can i join you guys? :popcorn I brought beer :cheers :beer

Welcome to the 2nd half Potter! Grab that seat over there -> and remember to re-start the popcorn maker :popcorn and grab me the long tall cool one over there :beer thanks! :cheers

Nerys, buying a used Metro isn't likely to do much for gm :lol

Iamgeo, telling people to shove it isn't very civil, but aside from that I'm still wondering (if you would be so kind to tell) what was wrong with BB quoting Coche who really only said "if you know your right, your right" that set you off. Inquiring (and Enquiring) minds want to KNOW :lol
Edited by bogs, Nov 25 2009, 12:28 PM.
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nerys
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Grr

I know but its a matter of principle and image. I don't even want to be seen vaguely in support of GM. I want them to die a horrible gruesome corporate death. Instead the gov put a gun to my head and said pay them anyway. How nice :-)
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starscream5000
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Got 70 MPG?

This is just my opinion on the matter about GM selling the patent, so take it as a grain of salt:

The oil companies knew how many BILLIONS of dollars they were goint to loose if the cars were going to be manufactured with extremely efficient motors, so they gave GM a very good incentive to NOT begin production, thus the selling of the patent to the oil companies.

That patent is probably locked up tighter than Fort Knox and will never see the light of day again... :shake
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nerys
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Grr

actually big oil did not have to even offer GM anything. GM gave it to them willingly (for price off course)

you see back then (no idea but likely similar today) 54% of GM's profit came from AFTER you sold the car. Parts Labor Finance Charges Warranties etc..

almost all of that is ELIMINATED with electric cars. you see first BEV's are CHEAP (done right) very very cheap.

Think about this. your regular family mid size sedan. Open the hood. Take absolutely everything you can yank from under that hood and THROW IT AWAY. all of it 100% of it including the tranny and exhaust and emissions and cooling all fluids etc.. EVERYTHING.

What percentage of the value of the car do you think that is? EASILY well over 50% of the car but for this discussion lets call it 50%

Cost of one of these basic 4door sedans? EVEN TODAY you can walk into a dealership with $9000 and walk out with a car $8000 is well within range. but lets use $9000 (I can walk into a nissan dealership and buy a $9000 car I know I was reading the sign for it (my dad was looking at a cube I was boared)

I go with him for this kind of stuff to make sure he does not get burned on the technical side of things.

so lets take HALF the price of that car or $4500 (note this is NOT COST this is FULL MSRP no haggling or deals of incentives or vouchers)

Now add an electric motor. $2000 add the controller $2000 charger $500

thats another $4500 total so far $9000

now the battery. Ovonics (the company that invented the battery) and GM are QUOTED in press releases as announcing the FULL RETAIL PRICE of the battery pack at $4500 (interesting how all this is $4500 times 3 ehh? really is just a coincidence)

TOTAL FULL MSRP RETAIL SHOW ROOM PRICE of a basic (think XFI) econobox 4 door midsize sedan with NO FRILLS is $13,500 FULL RETAIL.

IT GETS BETTER

the nature of electric cars is virtually ZERO maintenance compared to a gas car. you might not have to repair a single thing on that car (not counting consumables like brakes wheels etc..) for DECADES !!! no joke DECADES.

what started to scare GM was the mechanics reports with such simple words on them of "nothing to repair" changed wipers Nothing else to repair. etc.. over and over again.

you are taking a drive train with literally HUNDREDS of moving parts and replacing it with something that is 100% solid state no moving parts save ONE SINGLE moving part the electric motor shaft.

that electric motor will EASILY outlive you and probably outlive your kids.

so here you have a dirt cheap car ANYONE can afford and I mean almost ANYONE that requires almost ZERO maintenance will make you SQUAT in parts and labor and finance charges.

THINK about that for a moment. now imagine 54% of your profit going POOF. Think GM had a good (greedy) reason to KILL the EV1 with prejiduce.

and the EV1 is not even a good example. its an EXTREME car like the insight or our metro's

better to compare to the RAV4EV $42,000 (10 years ago!!!!!!) normal 5 seater SUV with an all electric range of 80-110 miles and it was NOT EVEN DESIGNED TO BE ELECTRIC! they took a rav4 glider and shoved EV crap into it.

they could EASILY assure a minimum 100mile range just with a tiny bit of aeromodding and lightening (think aluminum frame)

Toyota put over 300,000 miles one of the battery packs in japan and STILL COULD NOT KILL IT !!

there are rav4ev's on the road today with over 150,000 miles on them and ZERO degradation in the battery pack.

they are rated for 250,000 miles to 80% and that appears to be conservative! for the average american this means 20-25 YEARS before you would even have to THINK about replacing the battery.

and at about $1.50 per 100 miles driven in electricity.

AND THERE IS MORE yes there really is more :-)

average american drives 11,000 miles a year at an average of 20mpg (the average is likely a lot lower but its artificially lifted by the few of us who drive REALLY efficient cars :-) but hey lets use 20mpg.

thats 550 gallons of gas a year or almost $1600 in fuel.

EVEN IF WE TAKE IT AS IS that means you have $133 a month FREE to put on your car loan payment. 0% would be easy to get especially with the gov mandating it to assist the green movement whatever. $225 a month.

your OUT OF POCKET to own an EV with ZERO DOWN is only $92 a month. could you afford $92 a month? I bet most people COULD.

now consider MANY of us drive WAY MORE than 11000 miles year. I drive 40,000 miles a year or $5000 a year in fuel. WAIT the yearly payments on the car are only $2700 a year.

How interesting. for me the car is FREE from day # 1. it will actually SAVE ME MONEY from the very first day to buy one of those cars over using my current car.

you only have to drive 19,000 miles (or get less than 20mpg and you can lower that) to BREAK EVEN from the VERY FIRST DAY you sign the paper work

if you drive more than that the car is FREE for you.

how many of you could afford that?

NOW you understand why they were scared out of there minds. scared witless. they took back all the cars and CRUSHED THEM literally. they actually sent a GM rep with each truckload to VERIFY and COUNT each crushed car (paranoid you think??) I guess so when so much is at stake.

NOW lets go one further. $7500 government voucher (I do not agree with it I think its illegal and unconstitutional and immoral but hey thats not going to stop it)

NOW things get REALLY interesting. $7500 off the price suddenly makes this a $6000 car.

Suddenly your FULL monthly payment is now only $100 TOTAL. (before it was $92 more than you spend in fuel or $133 PLUS $92)

now its LITERALLY just $100 a month.

how much do you spend in gas? EVEN IN MY METRO I SPEND MORE THAN $100 a month in fuel !!!!!

NOW you understand why they wanted this so dead dead dead. its NOT a conspiracy. this is public knowledge. (with a ton of propoganda to muddle things) its just simple greed. nothing more. Just greed.

how about people who advocate against EV's (ie idiots sorry I get tired or thinking of them as anything else it just gets old)

they think oh they are slow. well first so what? second they are anything but slow. the EV1 could beat a low end SUPERCAR to 40mph it had so much damned torque. (back then the motors were not powerful enough to go tranny free)

What if I want to go more than 100miles. OK I am going to exude a lot of intentional sarcasm here so bear with me its another one of those aggravating BS points people bring up.

Hmm lets see here. Its coming to me. Wait for it. Wait for it.

I GOT IT.

ready for this? to go more than 100 miles you only need to ....

DRIVE THE GOD DAMNED GAS CAR YOU ALREADY HAVE

pheewwww. Ok got that out of my system. YES I understand some can not have 2 cars MOST OF US CAN and for those that can not

RENT A GOD DAMNED CAR. the cost of the rental will be cheaper than the GASOLINE YOU NEED TO USE.

Oh wait its going to load down the electric grid too much. Woh is us.

BS. every ELECTRIC person (ie people opearting our plants) those people all of them 100% of them say EV's will not be a bother to our grid.

why? because they DO NOT USE MUCH POWER :-)

less than 10,000 watts to go 100 miles or about 8000watts for a small car (if I did the math right it should be close)

consider this. You know that space heater you probably dug out of the closet already?

plug it in. right now plug it in. its 1728 right now. by 2300 hours your little heater will have used MORE JUICE than an EV would use to go 100miles.

did your heater take down the grid? thats what I thought :-)

one more thing i hear. but your just transferring the pollution from the tail pipe to the grid?

what they conveniently DON'T TELL YOU is the transfer is NON EQUAL.

electricity is SO efficient an energy source for the purpose of moving vehicles that you use a TINY FRACTION of the power the gasoline engine had to make to move the car.

electric heater 5.3 hours uses the same power the car will use to go 100 miles. do the math. the pollution transfered is FRACTIONAL. a tiny itty bitty part of the pollution you REMOVED by not running the ICE.

On top of that its 100% domestic 100% american created. No more foreign oil issues.

ON TOP OF THAT ev's are SO efficient its suddenly practical to 100% offset your power usage with a very small affordable solar panel array. if nano solar gets there butts in gear selling those 90cent a watt panels for $2700 you could use ZERO grid power overall to power your car.

$1700 for the tie in and $1000 for the panel will produce more power over the period of a month than your EV will USE in a month. now the car is FREE to drive (even using grid power alone its only going to cost the average person $130-$150 a YEAR to drive an EV) that might as well be FREE your not even going to notice a blip on your electric bill.

The problem is UNLIKE normal devices where once the patent expires anyone can make them BATTERIES require infrastructure and capital.

the only companies who really have the needed capital are auto makers and they are the only companies with ZERO interest in making them.

AND off course the only company tooled up to make them (ECD Ebasys) is also owned by GUESS WHO!

Chevron. How nice. so even when the patent expires in a few years when you go to ask for some batteries they will simply say. No thanks we don't want to make them YOU go make them.

off course WE CAN'T go make them and the auto makers DO NOT WANT TOO.

man it just drives me nuts. Sorry for the insanley massive post but its a lot of info and I think you guys will enjoy reading it. Don't take my word for anything. you can look up pretty much anything in this post and verify it yourself with a little google fu.

a good place to start? yeah its a docu but its got a lot of the news footage and interviews all in one place which makes it a convenient source of information.

go download or rent "Who Killed the Electric Car"

you can see the 60minutes interview with the tax folks on youtube. yes its got a bunch of eco/protest junk with it but the INTERVIEW speaks for itself.

the gov instituted a $100,000 tax credit for 6000+ pound vehicles and INTENTIONALLY left a loop hole that allowed SUV's to qualify (it was supposed to be for trucks like delivery trucks etc..) hence why its was called the Hummer Tax.

Once the EV was succefully killed they off course redid that tax back to a sane $25,000. it had served its purpose in assisting in the murder of the BEV.

GM did its part killed all the EV1's and to make sure no one else would think about doing this they bought controlling shares of ovonics CENSURED the inventor for trying to go public with his success and sold controlling shares to Texaco/Chevron

sued california BOUGHT the carb committee so the DOZENS of citizens got nearly ZERO time to speak but the FEW corporate execs who showed up got all the speaking time they wanted and neutered the ZEV requirements which started all of this.

within a month GM bought HUMMER and closed the EV1 plant.
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iamgeo
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Big League

Quote:
 
Iamgeo, telling people to shove it isn't very civil,

True. But that was my only transgression.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
'm still wondering (if you would be so kind to tell) what was wrong with BB quoting Coche
Just stop, those of you who know you are right good job. Those of you that "know" you are right, good job.


Notice the quotation marks around know?
He was stating that the other guys are right and that I only think I am right.
Very condescending sentence. Just pissed me off.

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