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Econ cam and +10deg sprocket timing help needed
Topic Started: Dec 2 2009, 06:05 PM (2,379 Views)
Race1923
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Hey guys an update from my last post.

After doing as much research on how to time my engine as possible (96 G10 with Mikes Econ head package including cam and 10deg sprocket) I felt like I had the know how and went ahead to give it a shot.

I lined both of the sprocket's timing marks up. The cam sprocket's #2 mark with the notch above, and the crankshaft's notch with the notch above on the block. I turned my distributor to full advance because Mike said to start with that and if there is any ping back off on the timing in increments.

When I fired up the car for the first time it sounded like it was firing on all 3 cylinders but horribly out of time. I shut the car off and retarded the timing a little fired it back up and sounded a lot alike the first start up. Not any better. Retarded the timing some more and same result. Engine still sounded with very loud clicking and pinging, just slowed down the idle little by little. I retarded my cam sprocket by one tooth and there was still loud clicking and pinging.

Before I started the engine for the first time, I made sure to check for interference by turning the engine over by hand a few times and there was none. I am running 87oct.
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Dallas


are you sure you used the right timing marks on the aftermarket pulley? you do know you have to use the custom hole drilled, not the oval slot, and the drilled timing mark, not the stock one?

though I doubt it would run 180* out, sounds like you are a tooth off the other way maybe. check your ignition timing with a gun, that should tell you.

I dont think there should really be that much of a change in idle, it should sound stock
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Coche Blanco
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Dallas
Dec 2 2009, 06:44 PM
are you sure you used the right timing marks on the aftermarket pulley? you do know you have to use the custom hole drilled, not the oval slot, and the drilled timing mark, not the stock one?

though I doubt it would run 180* out, sounds like you are a tooth off the other way maybe. check your ignition timing with a gun, that should tell you.

I dont think there should really be that much of a change in idle, it should sound stock
180* out is "right where you started"

It seems like OP may be WAAY out on timing. Picture of marks and cam gear?
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Race1923
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Coche Blanco
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I meant installed, haha.
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Race1923
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Mike said in the instructions that hole #1 is used instead of the oval, or oblong hole, for the camshaft dowel. And hole #2 is used as your timing reference mark, when re-installing the timing belt. Disregard stock dowel holes/markings on the camshaft sprocket.

I installed the belt with the #2 timing reference mark on the sprocket lining up with the mark on the cover above the sprocket. Also with the crankshaft marks lining up below.
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Race1923
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Coche Blanco
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Well, you did it right, so don't worry there.

Try the below if you get bored and no one posts in the amount of time you want them to.:
Retard the Dist timing all the way, set the cam gear back to stock. Run it there (yes it's a lot of work, but that helps you make sure it's not the gear) Have you removed your EGR valve?
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Race1923
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I cant get a clear picture of the marks below on the crankshaft sprocket, but with the timing on the camshaft sprocket retarded by one tooth, when you line up the cam sprocket like in the picture above the crank sprocket mark is a little farther ahead in turn
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Race1923
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Coche Blanco
Dec 2 2009, 07:18 PM
Well, you did it right, so don't worry there.

Try the below if you get bored and no one posts in the amount of time you want them to.:
Retard the Dist timing all the way, set the cam gear back to stock. Run it there (yes it's a lot of work, but that helps you make sure it's not the gear) Have you removed your EGR valve?
No I haven't removed it. What is it?

I have thought about changing the sprockets back to stock (lining them up evenly again) and retarding the dist all the way but I don't think it will help me because when I gradually was retarding it upon first start up it didn't seem to be helping anything... it might be worth another shot though
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Coche Blanco
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Race1923
Dec 2 2009, 07:28 PM
Coche Blanco
Dec 2 2009, 07:18 PM
Well, you did it right, so don't worry there.

Try the below if you get bored and no one posts in the amount of time you want them to.:
Retard the Dist timing all the way, set the cam gear back to stock. Run it there (yes it's a lot of work, but that helps you make sure it's not the gear) Have you removed your EGR valve?
No I haven't removed it. What is it?

I have thought about changing the sprockets back to stock (lining them up evenly again) and retarding the dist all the way but I don't think it will help me because when I gradually was retarding it upon first start up it didn't seem to be helping anything... it might be worth another shot though
Posted Imagehttp://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp123/BadBent/10l3cylinderg10timingsj4.jpg

That's properly timed, although yours will vary because of the new gear.


Try putting it back stock, and see if it still runs bad. If it does, it's not the gear. It may be the EGR, but I always forget if the EGR works at WOT or idle. Did you try to rev it?
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Race1923
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No I didn't rev it at all because the way it sounded made me want to turn it off so I didn't damage my new valvetrain. In that picture you gave above of the timing marks being in line is just what my marks looked like before start up. Except for it was timed by the mark chalked on the sprocket by Mike.
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Coche Blanco
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*sees suprf1y posting

I'll let him take this from here.
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Dallas


Race1923
Dec 2 2009, 07:41 PM
No I didn't rev it at all because the way it sounded made me want to turn it off so I didn't damage my new valvetrain. In that picture you gave above of the timing marks being in line is just what my marks looked like before start up. Except for it was timed by the mark chalked on the sprocket by Mike.
then it sounds correct, do you have a vacuum guage by any chance? or a tachometer in the car to tell us what its idling at? does it sound like its about to die? you should check spark timing, if you cant turn the dist to get the flashing mark to show up on the crank, your cam timing IS out. maybe its just an exhaust leak since you put a new head on? did you replace any exhaust gaskets? can you post a pic of the entire engine bay as it is? do you have the pcv valve hooked up? how about all the other vacuum lines?
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Race1923
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No don't have a vacuum gauge. My car doesn't have a tach. It doesn't sound like its about to die it sounds like it is idling high though, like it does when its started cold or what not. I don't have a working timing light at the moment so that makes things more difficult....

I replaced the exhaust manifold gasket because my other one was trash. Something has also been smoking a lot right around the exhaust manifold area. I think the gasket is breaking in still. Maybe hasn't gotten hot enough yet.

I'm still learning about what the pcv valve is along with the EGR so I couldn't tell you the status on those quite yet. I have all of the vacuum lines hooked up to the best of my knowledge. I will post pics of the engine bay right now

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