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fuel pump not getting power?; engine won't start. relay shot?
Topic Started: Feb 18 2010, 02:44 PM (2,420 Views)
bleep
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bleep
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Starting at the installation of the rebuilt engine after (1.0L three cyl) it started right up and ran good for over 1000kms (700miles) then all of a sudden after using it, and shutting it off it wouldn't restart. I wasn't there at the time but buddy checked the spark and said there was lots. Then he took out his hammer and pounded on the fuel tank while they attempted to start it up. This was a success and the car was driven home, then shut off and attempted to restart with no.success. So when I got home I jumped in and it fired right up so I let i run for a bit shut it off then restarted it with no problem. After moving it in the driveway let it idle for a minute, turned off the key and could hear the fuel pump for about 8 seconds running. At this point the engine would only turn over and not start. Before taking apart the fuel tank I undid the fuel line at the carb the one with the bolt and there was no fuel pressure.
So next I spent two days taking out the fuel pump checking it out and finding that when you turn on the key there was no power going to the connection under the rear seat, I thought that the fuel pump relay wasn't working so I found the wire that goes to the fuel pump, and disconnected the fog lights and ran it through the switch on the dash so now I have fuel going to the carb! All is sweet!! good to go right? until while trying to start it up this time with all kinds of fuel presssure, still won't start. With the jumper wire still connected to the switch on the dash to manually turn on the fuel pump now there is no spark and the 15a fuse in the main fuse box marked fi (whatever that is?) is blown. Next I put in a 25 and it poped instantly as soon as the ignition was turned over, tried a 30a same thing but the engine started for a second? What to do next???
ps the jumper wire is plugged right into the relay at the wire that feeds the pump.
Edited by bleep, Feb 18 2010, 04:04 PM.
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carmech97
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I would say that you have an intermittent short in the fuel pump circuit somewhere, because the fuel pump relay picks up power from that circuit with the blown fuse. One way to get around this would be to run a wire from any handy source of power (like what you did with a switch) directly to the fuel pump connection under the back seat, leaving the original hot wire for the fuel pump disconnected. If the problem clears up, then you can either leave your redneck-repair as-is :thumb or hunt for the short in the fuel pump circuit! :x
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bleep
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bleep
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should I change the relay do you think that would be it? http://z3.ifrm.com/165/2/0/e168821//e168821.gif
Edited by bleep, Feb 18 2010, 04:00 PM.
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bleep
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carmech97
Feb 18 2010, 03:47 PM
I would say that you have an intermittent short in the fuel pump circuit somewhere, because the fuel pump relay picks up power from that circuit with the blown fuse. One way to get around this would be to run a wire from any handy source of power (like what you did with a switch) directly to the fuel pump connection under the back seat, leaving the original hot wire for the fuel pump disconnected. If the problem clears up, then you can either leave your redneck-repair as-is :thumb or hunt for the short in the fuel pump circuit! :x
thanks for the input on this situation. It just baffles me that it just shit itself after working fine after the new engine was installed. The engine ran fine.
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carmech97
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It happens all the time! :evillol
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bleep
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carmech97
Feb 18 2010, 04:14 PM
It happens all the time! :evillol
went out to work on it just now and pulled out the jumper wire and put in a new fuse and it fired right up so I'll go put fresh gas in it, the fuel filter was also on backwards
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bleep
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bleep
Feb 18 2010, 05:22 PM
carmech97
Feb 18 2010, 04:14 PM
It happens all the time! :evillol
went out to work on it just now and pulled out the jumper wire and put in a new fuse and it fired right up so I'll go put fresh gas in it, the fuel filter was also on backwards
well this car still has something wrong day three now and I'm right back to where I started. Today I got it running went down and put some gas in drove it around shut off four or five times no problems came home put in the rear seat, started it up it ran till the fuel lines emptied then died. Took out the back seat for the umpteenth time in the last two months no power at the connection to the fuel pump with key on. Well at least the 15a fuse is holding and not blowing so tomorrow I'll look at the wreckers for a relay for the fuel pump.
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mwebb
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FOG

..."well this car still has something wrong day three now and I'm right back to where I started. Today I got it running went down and put some gas in drove it around shut off four or five times no problems came home put in the rear seat, started it up it ran till the fuel lines emptied then died. Took out the back seat for the umpteenth time in the last two months

no power at the connection to the fuel pump with key on.

Well at least the 15a fuse is holding and not blowing so tomorrow I'll look at the wreckers for a relay for the fuel pump. "...


with Key on Engine Off , the fuel pump relay turns on for a few seconds
then
if it does not see a signal from the ECM to indicate that the engine is running
the Fuel Pump Relay shuts off

so if there is no B+ or positive supply to the fuel pump , Key On Engine Off
after 10 seconds or so ...

that is "normal" and should be considered "good"
=========================================
i would SWAG the harness has rubbed through somewhere and that is causing the popped fuse
that relay powers up more components than the fuel pump .....
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Johnny Mullet
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Hi-Tech Redneck

I have heard of the wiring to the injector getting frayed and shorting. I would pop off the air cleaner and check that real quick.
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JAMES
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:hmm One of the first things I noticed,when I got my METRO ,was someone had already bypassed the pump relay and wired the pump directly to the ignition switch.And it has been that way for the whole 9 years i've owned it. ^o)
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bleep
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bleep
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Thanks alot you guys for giving me a direction to go to I'm getting frustrated with this short circuit problem they told me that before the engine went on this car there was a problem with the car not wanting to start after they shut it off if they waited a while it would go again. Similar to what has happened yesterday to me. The fuse popping was most likely all me when I put the power wire from the driving lights into the socket of the relay (wire that feeds the pump), may have touched the wire beside it anyway the fuse is holding for now but it still just turns over and won't start.

James that's an awesome metro! I'd put up my car but the file size is to big apparently?
Edited by bleep, Feb 19 2010, 02:18 AM.
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carmech97
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Well, now you know what to do! As James and I were saying, the easiest way out is to just bypass the entire fuel pump circuit. Then you don't need to be concerned about relays or nothing. KISS (keep it simple smartguy!) :lol
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

bleep
Feb 19 2010, 01:30 AM
.... I'd put up my car but the file size is to big apparently?
->Here<- is where you want to go to learn to upload images :)
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

:gp

In Photobucket you have a free simplified version of Photoshop. I always reduce the file size to medium or sometimes large if more detail is needed.
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bleep
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finally just installed used fuel pump from pickapart and now the 1.0 roars to life with a quick roll of the starter.
I would like to give thanks to all for the assistance to this post engine overhaul problem and now I can remove and install the gas tank blindfolded!
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