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| No Spark??; Wont Start | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 20 2010, 01:27 AM (14,213 Views) | |
| Bad Bent | Mar 1 2010, 08:45 PM Post #31 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Well, I'll jump in with some simple stuff. so please bear with me. You have two coils and I assume one is the original and the other came from...? Reason being I simply spent the $30 or so for an after market FlameThrowerII that I'm very confident about. So you have cleaned grounds on the coil wire and connections for the positive side. Have you cleaned all the fuses and fusible links? The 20 amp IG Fuse under the dash and the links in the engine bay, driver's side. I removed the entire engine bay fuse box from the driver's side to clean the contacts under it. My yellow fusible link was blown. I carry a spare. My Chilton, of all things shows a 40 amp fusible link on the white/green wire from the ignition switch. They are a sort of in-line fuse. I like to ask what were the last two things done to the car, mechanical or electrical, before this happened?
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| jellybean | Mar 1 2010, 09:03 PM Post #32 |
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did you ever find the short you reported i don't see that in your posts |
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| oneofakinder | Mar 2 2010, 10:59 PM Post #33 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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Bad Bent..... The last 2 things I did were Refill with oil, start, and I pulled the negative cable off the battery to test the alternator(which I found out from mwebb isn't the modern method to test the alternator). It died instantly and hasn't started since. Jelly Bean.... Yes I did get the headlights fixed, I just unplugged that burnt harness about 5 times and reseated it and the headlights started working. I was hoping the same thing would happen with the CMP after removing it and putting it back in so many times to test it. |
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| Bad Bent | Mar 2 2010, 11:56 PM Post #34 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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So, a little research and it appears you committed a "Load dump" on your electrical system. See wikipedia.orgLoad_dump and I have no information on a '93 Geo. My '91 does not have a diode in the engine bay fuse box. Yours might. Wiki says "Special protection devices, such as TVS diodes, varistors which can withstand and ground these spikes may be added to protect such semiconductor devices." It may have fried the coil that was installed or any component directly wired to the battery positive? Here is the search I used; www.dogpile.com/load-dump-alternator-engine-running Again, IMO if you are lucky there is an in line fusible link, diode or fuse that blew. |
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| jellybean | Mar 3 2010, 10:21 AM Post #35 |
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one more or two, with the key off, door closed, nothing on, disconnect the negative battery cable and look for a spark if it sparks you have a problem with that. although a radios memory wire is always on you could disconnect that to see no spark. not being there we have to ask redundant questions do you have 12v at the coil + side(Key on) or if its a plug connector one of the wires i apologize if i missed that. or some of the tests you've done could have eliminated that i just am anal sometimes and like to double check, Edited by jellybean, Mar 3 2010, 10:25 AM.
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| oneofakinder | Mar 3 2010, 07:39 PM Post #36 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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OK, I have voltage at the coil harness right at the coil. This I pulled off the automotive repair reference center for the 1993 geo metro 1.0L. "Measure the resistance between the positive and negative terminals. Resistance should be 1.08–1.32 ohms electronic ignition with knock control and 1.33–1.55 ohms for all others. Measure the resistance between the positive/negative terminals and the coil high tension wire terminal. Resistance should be 11.6–15.8 kilo-ohms for electronic ignition with knock control and 10.7–14.5 kilo-ohms up to 1993. 22.1–30 kilo-ohms for vehicles 1994–00. " From what I am able to test. The resistance between positive and nevative terminals on my system is 1.9 ohms. The resistance between positive and nevative terminals to the coil is 25.5 on positive and 25.4 kilo-ohms on negative. My question if I'm reading this right, THe resistance between positive/negative to coil is fine, but the resistance between positive and negative terminals is bad? Is that correct? HAHA, lemme edit this one more time for the idiot that's typing on the keyboard. I read my instructions wrong, It looks to me like both readings are bad. Sorry for being an idiot. Please correct me if I'm wrong I also just went through every single harness/fuse/fusable link I could find, removed the whole fuse box from under the dash, nothing blown. Same with box under the hood. nothing blown. Edited by oneofakinder, Mar 3 2010, 08:35 PM.
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| Bad Bent | Mar 3 2010, 11:19 PM Post #37 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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I agree... do you have a good friend at a parts shop? Why not take the coil and your tester in and compare the readings to a known good coil? I hope it's only a fried the coil. BUT read on.... mwebb, he's back! Edited by Bad Bent, Mar 3 2010, 11:58 PM.
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| mwebb | Mar 3 2010, 11:47 PM Post #38 |
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FOG
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remain focused - just because you have installed a new CMP there is no reason to believe that part works - test as per earlier instructions post test results - without signal from the CMP the PCM will never send IGT signal to the ignitor which will then never ground the coil negative and then release it which will never cause spark .... NEVER and i mean NEVER test an ignition coil with an ohm meter the results will be false and UN usable , because they are not made under load .... and there is more resistance in your meter's cables than some of the values you are supposed to measure .... unless you enjoy chasing your own tail ... DO NOT USE OHM METERS when testing broken cars - as long as you are testing outside of protocol ... have you tested for a pulse at coil negative ? cranking the starter ? |
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| jellybean | Mar 3 2010, 11:57 PM Post #39 |
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did you get resistance of 185 to 325 ohms for the cmp ? I also have the manual open for a 97. after the coil the next test is the noise suppressor filter and then the ignitor on the firewall driver side also called the ingnition control module after that its on to the pcm but you've already done that once. you will need a test light to test the icm so if the coil doesn't work round up a 12v test light Hey mike sorry about the ohms its what is in the manual didn't see your post i'm slow on the keyboard Edited by jellybean, Mar 4 2010, 12:05 AM.
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| Woodie | Mar 4 2010, 06:55 AM Post #40 |
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I don't know what that "manual" is going on about, no Metro ever had knock control. You've got 2 ohms on the primary and 25K ohms on the secondary. No shorts no opens, sounds like a good coil to me. Isn't there a noise filter between the CMP sensor and the ECM? I think the silver box with fins on the firewall near the coil? |
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| oneofakinder | Mar 4 2010, 07:42 AM Post #41 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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Testing results I could get done this morning, I do NOT have a pulse at the negative wire at the coil. Jelly Bean.... The resistance on the CMP is 216 ohms. I'm not even exactly sure where the Ignition control module is located, I read firewall/drivers side. I didn't see it under the hood, maybe it's inside the cab on the firewall/drivers side?? Edited by oneofakinder, Mar 4 2010, 07:53 AM.
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| jellybean | Mar 4 2010, 11:53 AM Post #42 |
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i've just revised my post twice and finally had to ask my friendly parts store for the ignitor location. its inside your distributor to the best info i have now, my book will not really help 97 has external
Edited by jellybean, Mar 4 2010, 12:21 PM.
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| oneofakinder | Mar 4 2010, 07:34 PM Post #43 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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As far as I know from all the testing I've done, the pickup/stator is what's in side the distributor, also heard it called the CMP. The Ignition control module is a black box somewhere that has a harness plugged into it. |
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| oneofakinder | Mar 4 2010, 08:00 PM Post #44 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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I would also like to know where the ignitor is. 1993 1.0L Anyone?? Edited by oneofakinder, Mar 6 2010, 08:57 AM.
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| oneofakinder | Mar 6 2010, 12:40 PM Post #45 |
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Trying Hard To Like Metro!
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I'd like to test the ignitor if possible. As per what Mwebb asked if I get a pulse on the negative side of the coil, no I dont, so I'm thinking something is wrong before the coil. |
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