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Water Pump Capacity
Topic Started: Mar 8 2010, 12:53 PM (1,512 Views)
nerys
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Grr

I want to replace my water pump with an electric pump.

What is the capacity of the stock belt driven pump at cruise? ie how many gallons per minute does it move?

I want to "cut" the housing of a water pump so its a pass through and then cut a hose and put the pump "inline" in one of the hoses and run it off 12v.

I can get RV pumps that push 2.8gallons a minute. too much? too little? suggestions?
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MEgaTRO
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autobot

well the pump doesn't just pump water into the engine it also circulates the water that is already in the engine. the thermostat then controls how much of the water is getting too hot and vents it out to the radiator, where the lower radiator hose then supplies cool water back into the engine. so you'd have to find a way to have it circulate the water that is in the engine instead of just providing a flow. also not too sure about rv pumps, they usually run cold water through and into the water heater. i might be wrong but i don't think they run hot. and i doubt they would last very long at 180/195 operating temperature. i looked into making a chevy 350 electric pump fit another project i had going a while ago caus they were the cheapest electric water pumps i could find.

now a easy electric water pump setup idea that popped in is:
in the mid 80's bmw used an external thermostat meaning it wasn't in the engine. it was on the side of the engine with 3 hoses it took one from the upper radiator hose and fed it into the waterpump as its main water supply and when it got too hot it would open the thermostat acting like a valve and it would then get water from the radiator instead. it was a really weird setup but i think it would be the easiest in just replacing the waterpump that is used with a electric inline one. lol if its still not clear i could go into more detail. but its just an idea.. it would require 4 radiator hoses though.. two to the pump and two into the radiator..

hope this helped.
Edited by MEgaTRO, Mar 8 2010, 04:36 PM.
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nerys
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Grr

well looking at my water pump it appears to be a dumb pump. ie it does no diverting or controlling it just "pumps" so whatever else in the engine does circulation and temp control would "still do" those things regardless of what was doing the pumping.

what I am worried about is "not pumping enough" to keep the engine cool or wasting too many amps pumping way more than I need to :-)

I can get heavy duty pumps from 1 gallon a minute to 2.8gal a minute to 6 gallon a minute.
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MEgaTRO
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autobot

couldn't hurt to try.
aren't you worried about the rv pump over heating?
and are you still going to be running the alternator off of the crank pulley?
you got me hooked on this subject now! haha here i come youtube...
Edited by MEgaTRO, Mar 8 2010, 05:49 PM.
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nerys
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Grr

Well I plan to use a continuous duty pump and then under run it to reduce load. I plan to have 2 pumps so if I have a failure I can "flip" a switch and goto the backup pump. I just can not afford an automotive water pump I can buy 6 or 7 rv pumps for the price of 1 auto pump!!

YES I eventually plan to get rid of the alternator as well but leave it in place so in a pinch I can "put" a belt back on. (the water pump would just be like an idler pully just free spinning)

I want to add 2 or 3 deep cycle batteries and also add some solar panels to the roof. I already have my GPS solar. I got a nice solar panel with USB plug and so far the GPS does not seem to mind take a charge off it! Nice.

I am also going to experiment with using a NIMH pack to replace the lead acid battery. Much more tolerate to full depletions than leads are.

For now I want to toy with the water pump since its the cheapest item on the list and a critical one.
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Dallas


a new pump up here was 70 bucks, refurb for 40. how much are you really risking by changing the system to electric pumps, when you could slap one on there for under a hundred and never worry about it again for the life of the car?

seems like too much for nothing. I could see maybe in a high rpm race car you would want to drop the parasitic loss of the waterpump/alternator, but I would honestly just put an oem pump on it and quit thinking too much ;) just my 2c
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billy508
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billy508

Interesting link about water pumps. http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/accessories_electronics/0408sc_pump/index.html
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nerys
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Grr

because it eliminates the belt :-) ie more MPG. it also means I can build in redundancy. Regardless of how reliable they are if they die on a trip YOUR DONE till you replace it.

with electric I can eliminate the belt and its consumed power from the engine AND I can put in 2 for redundancy. When I go I GO :-) this summer I am going 1700 miles out to colorado by myself. NO not in the geo if I can help it ;-)

replacing the pump in my Clugbwagon? Not a good idea.

but if the GEO is not pumping all that much water it might be worth a shot. Thats why I am curious to know HOW many gallons a minute it pumps stock?
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wikityler
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Some say...

I think the only way to get flow figures for the water pump is to measure it yourself.
-Remove thermostat
-detach upper rad hose, and point it into a bucket
-Remove water pump drive belt
-Use an electric motor to drive the waterpump
-Measure how long it takes to move a gallon into the bucket at different rotation speeds.
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91xfi1.0


What will it take to modify the motor to run without a pump? I remember reading an article years ago where they took an air cooled motorcycle or atv engine and cut the fins off and turned it into a water cooled motor.

They didn't use a pump with it. I do not remember exactly what they did, but it was something like they designed the water cooling to take advantage of heat's tendency to rise. Thermo-syphon? The engine would heat the water, and the hot water would rise to the radiator, where it was cooled. Then the cooled water would sink and go back into the engine. This resulted in continuous water flow.

This explanation may not be technically correct. It has been maybe 25 years since I read that article.
Edited by 91xfi1.0, Mar 17 2010, 04:01 PM.
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billy508
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billy508

LINK http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=161237&page=2 Google is your friend(for now) Quote from link Wehber,

The 65 HP engine we use pumps approx. 5 gallons per minute at full throttle. The exact flow rate depends which radiator we are using, the number of elbows, fittings, length of hose, etc. I should also add this is for a vehicle that is constantly on the move.

The pressure drop vs. flow rate is very important not only for the pump, but for each component of your cooling system. :banana :banana :banana
Edited by billy508, Mar 17 2010, 05:27 PM.
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nerys
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Grr

hmmm so a 6gpm pump would be enough then. I could even rig the pumps in parrellel anduse twin 2.8gpm pumps so I could "kick in" the second pump if needed maybe on the same relay as the aux fan. so when the aux fan kicks the aux pump also kicks. this way when there is plenty of cooling the one pump will only run and further reduce my electrical demand.

My engine is 49hp so I am guessing even slower rates so twin 2.8's should do it.
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nerys
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Grr

OK got word back (LONG TIME waiting) the ZP20 pump is MORE than enough for the cooling needs of the 3cyl metro (the company tested it on a similar engine and got back to me !!!) $135 !! oh yeah going to order that bad boy as soon as I have the cash.

then I will be OHHH SO close to removing the belts all together. it only consumes 6amps and I can cut that in half by slowing it down. so 41 to 82 watts of electricity an hour. My 5.1 system only consumes 34 watts (max 41 every now and then)

so 3-6 amps 2.5 amps 7 amps for the car and 18amps for all the lights.

so my total amp draw is roughly 33amps MAX worst case more like 25 amps.

once I replace all the lights with LED's that will drop to under 20 amps. when I replace the HEADLIGHTS with either 35watt HID (40watt savings) or LED's (70 watt savings)

I will be down under 12-15 amps. Nice !! at that draw rate I should be able to eek out 9-10 hours run time on a pair of deep cycle batteries without going past 50% DOD.

add a 45 watt solar panel to the roof and I can add back 3 amps an hour. so I would only need 5 hours of direct sunlight to replace the energy I use for one way to work. meaning I should be able to get away with charging up to "top off" the batteries once a week.

not bad not bad at all.

I have SOME of the bits I need for the LED headlights. I have some killer heavy copper CPU heatsinks to keep the lights cool.

I plan to mount a 4x6" COPPER PLATE where the headlight currently goes. Mount the LED to one side of it (20watt led emitter array) and mount TWO of the copper heat sinks to the other side of the 4x6 copper plate.

a small "tube" will duct ram air from the front of the car "through" the heatsinks. the over kill on the copper and the ram air should be enough cooling to eliminate the need for active cooling with fans. I will install some nice fans anyway on a switch and a temp sensor inside the car to an alarm. too hot I flick on the fans.

but I still have not figured out the "optics" of how to make the "flood" beam of the emitters into a SPOT beam of a headlight.

if it looks like that is going to take too long I will go with the $90 HID conversion and live with 35 watts each (versus the 55watts I am consuming now) until I get the LED's sorted out.

man am I excited. this could actually work!!
Edited by nerys, May 12 2011, 12:43 PM.
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JellyBeanDriver


And when you really need power you can fire up the generator on the trailer, charge up the battery AND run the window AC unit in the trunk at the same time.
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nerys
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Grr

true or just put the belt back on :-)
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