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Rusty Cylinder
Topic Started: Apr 25 2010, 07:29 PM (4,467 Views)
bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

I looked at the enlarged picture again, it still looks like a crack (has depth and shadow on the inside) although I agree, it certainly would be an odd place to find one.
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Update:
Bogs: it is not a crack, but an oil drip :-)
MM: using the fingernail test, there is one main spot that catches my nail.
The first picture shows a red x and a red arrow.
The second picture shows a scratch. It is located where the red X is in the first picture. This is the worst spot.
The third picture shows the darker bands on mains 3 & 4(not sure how they're numbered). To the left of the holes, at the lower end of the darker band, there is a slight catch to the fingernail, but it is not as pronounced as the scratch in the second picture.
The block and pistons are slowly cleaning up as they soak in the diesel fuel.
The cylinder walls are not cracked that I can see, but #2 and #3 are pitted at the top.
I emailed parts dino that I need piston rings, main and rod bearings (possible thrust) and a full gasket set. He sent these 2 links.
http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page17.html
http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page76.html
The PO left me a new Felpro head gasket with the NAPA receipt. And a new rear seal gasket(s).
What's next?
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Edited by Jittney, May 19 2010, 01:08 AM.
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Murf 59
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The center pic is a little blurry. Do you have a machinest near by? It looks like just a simple polish job on the crank should do it. Did you see what I mean about using your nails? Get everything as clean as you can. Once the block is cleaned and ready to go. Bag it till you are ready to assy. Are you gonna reuse your pistons. If so, remove the old rings. Careful they edges are sharp. Once they are off. Break one of the thicker ones about 1/3. You are gonna use it to remove the old carbon build up in the ring grooves. I use duck tape or black electricians tape to keep from slicing your fingers. Tape the end your gonna hang onto. Use the squared end to remove the build up. Yeah its a pain. But it needs to be done. All three grooves too. Once they are cleaned rinse and bag. Are you gonna be able to run a tap through the mains, and head bolt holes? Remember to check your head gasket for the oil return holes. Most gasket sets have the return holes machined to small. A file will straighten them up just fine. What are you doing with the head?
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

MM, Yes, the center picture is blurry... only using my cell phone and it's just been stubborn as all get out to get a decent shot of the flaw. But, the point is, it needs to be seen by a machinist. OK. Will do that. The cylinders are pitted, so the question is; will honing fix it, or is it too pitted? I've not done honing, and the only thing I have to go by is JM's simple instructions. If the honing doesn't resolve it, wouldn't it need to be bored out and then need larger pistons or rings? So, I'll have to sort that out.
As for the head, it's hanging up in the shed. The head was loose when I got the car... for 2 years... hence, the rusty cylinders. The cam and TB were on the back seat floor. The valve cover was where the spare tire should have been. Parts were everywhere. Bolts on the driver's floormat. Valve cover grommets at the base of the windshield. TB parts, bolts and springs under the car. The little guy who had the car (doesn't speak English) pointed to the #1 cylinder valve (missing one) and gave the universal throw-hands-in-air and said 'boom!' The' only 2 words he could string together with prompt accuracy were 'yes, miss'. In retrospect, it could be misconstrued as 'yes, missing'. I think I'll name the car Jigsaw, as in puzzle. I'm learning.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Whoa, I'm impressed! :thumb :thumb

My car was delivered with the engine in the hatch, in pieces... just not that many pieces. :smackface I copped out and got a JDM engine on eBay for $525 shipped. It was my first engine install. Some money flows in and I'll get the right tools I never had and rebuild the old one like you are doing.

Excellent job, very inspiring. Thanks, Jittney!
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Murf 59
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3Tech is a good source for the Stainless Steel valves. Good Stuff. I have them in the Rocket and the Dark Starr. Take the block with you to the machine shop. Have him look at the pitting. Remember he wants to sell you a service. So read him when he is inspecting it. With out putting the old eyeball on the pitting its hard to tell. If it needs to be bored. Get your pistons and rings first. And its the same price to bore it .010 as it is .040. I go for the free cubic inchs. Some only go for a clean up bore. I am really enjoying helping with this project. I have build alot of engines. I do it from memory. Having to type it out. Means I have to dust off a lot of brain cells I thought were long dead. LOL
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

MM, The crank went to the machine shop today and I'll get it back tomorrow. Then I went to 3 parts stores. There was only one ball hone ($60) in town and it's 120 grit. JM recommended 180-220 grit ($45 online). No one rents a hone. Cost of boring is $20/cyl. So, the cost of honing vs boring is about the same. As you can tell by the picture, the pitting is still there. Soaking in diesel fuel is slowly cleaning up the block. I figure it took 17 years to get dirty, so waiting days for it to soak clean seems reasonable. I would suspect the pitting is such that honing would be marginal. The recommended machine shop seemed knowledgeable and I think I will take up your suggestion to have them look at the cylinders. I just need to round up a larger backpack, as I'm biking everywhere. Thanks for your help. :-)
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Just keep in mind that while the honing vs. boring maybe the same/similar in pricing, honing will not require buying pistons to fit the newer dimension :) Having said that, as MM says,
Quote:
 
If it needs to be bored. Get your pistons and rings first. And its the same price to bore it .010 as it is .040. I go for the free cubic inchs. Some only go for a clean up bore.
C.I. BABY ! :lol
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Murf 59
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bogs
May 20 2010, 11:12 PM
Just keep in mind that while the honing vs. boring maybe the same/similar in pricing, honing will not require buying pistons to fit the newer dimension :) Having said that, as MM says,
Quote:
 
If it needs to be bored. Get your pistons and rings first. And its the same price to bore it .010 as it is .040. I go for the free cubic inchs. Some only go for a clean up bore.
C.I. BABY ! :lol
Mr Bogs is right. Honing is much cheaper to do. And if it will take care of the pitting, Go for it. Absolutely. While you are waiting on the machine shop or parts spent your time cleaning all the little parts. One of the things I do for my engines is cleaning each and every nut and bolt. The heads so they look good. The threads so they install good. And when you get ready to torque them. It makes for a nice even pull. I won't be able to get back here till Monday. AM. And because the boss will be in. I can only pop in and out. Don't bother to clean up the pistons until you find out if your honing or boring. Sorry I am not implying your boring. :lol
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idmetro
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While you are searching for a bigger backpack (I love the mental image of biking a block to the machinist) you could clean and reassemble the lifters http://teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34314 Myself, I'd check around and see if I couldn't borrow one of the kiddie trailers from a friend/neighbor, put the block in a plastic bag (kids parents don't like them covered in grease) and haul it down to the machinist for a professional look/see. Or depending on your budget you could acquire a hone and take a shot at cleaning up the cylinders, worst case if they don't clean up you haul it down to get bored. I hope you are incorporating your daughter into the project for more than just breaker bar weight! Best of Luck!
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

I biked over to the machine shop after work to pick up the crank. It looks really nice. I'm quite pleased. No, I did not have the block with me, but I discussed the block with the machinist. He needed to see it to know if honing or boring would work. He also suggested treating the area with vinegar. 'Just see what that does,' he said. Hmmmm. So, I made it home in time to take 2 minutes to clean the area with vinegar (it maybe lightened it up a bit, but just around the pitting) and then I decided I couldn't tell what THAT meant and I had just enough time to drive the block to him before they closed. So, I did. By now, the place I wiped with vinegar looked like it'd been wiped with sour cream that was going brown. Hmmmm. But, he didn't seem surprised. He said not to hone it, but just keep cleaning it up as I have been doing and put new piston rings in it and run it like that. Cool! So, I am going to continue the cleaning process, chase the threads (aha.. get to by a tap/die set), clean the orifices and the gasket surfaces.
And, it was National Bike to Work Day.....and I won a $50 gift certificate for biking in...and I found a nice Popular Mechanics 1/4" pin punch on the road (it pays to bike through industrial areas, I guess). All in all, a good day.
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Beauty, sounds like you found a nice and honest machinist :thumb I do have to admit, though, that hearing about you biking around with an engine block also gave me a chuckle :) Congrats on the $50. g. c. and the nice find.
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idmetro
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sounds like the vinegar is dissolving some sort of buildup, once you finish the vinegar cleaning I'd still seriously consider honing the cylinders. New rings need to wear into the cylinder profile to get a good seal (hence good compression) and the slightly roughened surface left from honing helps that process take place.
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starscream5000
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Got 70 MPG?

Vinegar is slightly acid, so she essentially gave the block a mild acid bath to clean off rust and deposits :thumb
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Woodie
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I've heard people say new rings no honing before, on Metro engines. I'm not saying yea or nay, just that I've heard folks say that it worked for them.
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