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Front inner seal installation direction?
Topic Started: May 5 2010, 11:13 PM (2,708 Views)
JellyBeanDriver


I bought new front inner seals for a 92' metro to install in the 2000 knuckles I have because the seals have a different I.D. and it isn't as simple as just bolting in the new knuckles! (can't believe most of you didn't have a problem with this.)

The new seals look different than the existing ones in my 92', but I'm pretty sure they're the same - just a different company.

The new ones look like SKF 19090 and the original ones like the timken 4904.

Trouble is I don't know what direction the new seals go in.

I've always thought the tension spring goes inside towards the inner part of something (like a crankcase) but the shell on this seal suggests the seal is installed with the spring facing outwards, to the outside world.

Which way is this seal installed? Are seals ever installed with the tension spring exposed to the outside world? (maybe in this case so if it comes loose it doesn't get in the wheel bearings?)

Here's a picture of the seals I have.
Faces inside? (see rolled edge of shell and shell is hollow)
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Faces out? Shell not rolled, flared lip of seal, but why is the spring exposed to the elements?
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Closeup of what I think the side of the seal that should face in. I've seen this ribbing on seals before for the side that faces 'the oily side'.
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When looking at the seal, the side where the exposed spring is showing, that I.D. is smaller than the next lip on the inside.
This too suggests the spring should face the elements.

So which side faces out?


Dave
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, May 5 2010, 11:17 PM.
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drdan52000
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Old Wrench
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Most cases the garder goes to the wet side.
This seal is doing double duty, keeps the grease in, and another seal the dirt out.
There is some cases were the spring is out, on and air brake system, the S-cam seal the brakes from the grease, and the other one is installed with the spring out so that if to much grease is pump in it will pass by the seal, and not into the brake area.
:popcorn :popcorn
Edited by drdan52000, May 5 2010, 11:52 PM.
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JellyBeanDriver


Okay, I've decided the garter spring (thanks for the name DrDan) is exposed to the elements and faces out when the seal is installed.

When I bought these seals, I bought 3 in case I boogered one or in case they sent me the wrong one.

When I got them 2 look the same as what I posted. The 3rd seal looks different, but I think it too is the 'same', but has a metal guard feature.

Looking at this oddball seal, it's obvious from it which side is out vs in.

The side facing out has a light lip of rubber like the OEM seal I have and the shell of the seal can only be installed one was as there is a step in it. With this seal installed in the right direction, the garter spring is exposed.

Side of 'oddball' seal
Posted Image

Side that faces the outside world - lip of rubber that folds down like the OEM seal. Exposed garter spring
Posted Image

Side that faces in
Posted Image
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, May 5 2010, 11:56 PM.
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drdan52000
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I see what you have there.
The garder spring should go to the grease side.
Stair step seal, with big end, to the grease side, or bearing.
Maybe I was not clear about that.
And with the painted part being exposed to the outside world.
The problem is driving this type seal in.
Have pull the old seal yet?
I'm sure the garder spring is on the inside as will, on the old one.

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JellyBeanDriver


drdan52000
May 6 2010, 12:09 AM
I see what you have there.
The garder spring should go to the grease side.
Stair step seal, with big end, to the grease side, or bearing.
Maybe I was not clear about that.
And with the painted part being exposed to the outside world.
The problem is driving this type seal in.
Have pull the old seal yet?
I'm sure the garder spring is on the inside as will, on the old one.

Haven't pulled the old seal yet but the oem one had the spring on the inside. the OEM seal was constructed differently.

I'm almost 100% sure now that the spring does NOT face the grease side on these replacement seals I have.
There's no way for it to do so for the oddball seal I have due to the shell design.

I vaguely remember seeing the same thing on I think a Saturn, exposed garter spring, and thinking it was odd.
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crankcase


I have never installed one of these seals correctly. I've always ended up jacking them up. :smackface

I tried a seal driver set from the Zone and Harbor Freight, but they did not fit quite right. :rtfm

They looked like the one shown in the factory service manual, so I guess I'm not doing it right? :hmm

I know something is not right, I just don't know how to fix it? :banghead

Someone on the forum told me he sucessfully used a block of wood. :dunno

Please let us know what you did and how it turned out. :banana
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JellyBeanDriver


Just to confuse myself I ordered a pair of seals from RockAuto.

Out of 5 seals I should find 2 that work. . . .


Crankcase, I know what you mean. what makes these harder to install is that rubber flex lip (not the spring loaded one). Gets in the way of being able to press on just the shell. Starting them going in is always a pain.
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, May 6 2010, 12:38 AM.
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c140flyer


Hey Jellybean,
Great Stuff! I'll be following your thread to gain info for my conversion. I have a '96 front end that I want to install on my '92.
Thanks,
Larry
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drdan52000
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I have never install this seal myself as will.
If the one, your removing is factory, and the spring is out, I would pretty much go with what came out.
Maybe there trying to seal the dirt out, and the grease side is not a problem for leaking
Good luck.
I may have to take my vert apart, one of these days to see, how it was done.
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starscream5000
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Got 70 MPG?

On my inner seal I used a socket, but mine's different as I have ABS. On the outer seal I sucessfully used a block of wood as well :thumb
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JellyBeanDriver


I received my Beck Arnley 1992 seals today from Rock Auto. They are very similar in construction to SKF 19090 pn, and these do have the garter spring on the 'outside' (not towards the grease side). The rubber 'flap' that gets folded down when the CV joint is installed is much thinner and compliant vs the HubBearing SKF 19090 knockoffs.

I still need to get 2 more 13" wheels so I don't know if I'll get to do the knuckle swap this weekend.
Feeling kind of lazy too.

Dave
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c140flyer


Hi Jellybean,
I plan to do the conversion this weekend and wondered if you'd done yours yet. I bought the same Beck/Arnley seal you got. At last report the big rubber lip goes on the 'non-grease" side. Not the side with grease and bearings- correct ?
Thanks for your insight,
Larry

Edit: Assuming that the seal is installed by pushing on the "rubber lip" side,I had one of my machinest friends make me a tool for installing the seal. It's made of Delrin and is made so that force can be applied to the metal part of the seal without deforming the rubber lip. If sucessful, I'll let you borrow it.
Edited by c140flyer, May 27 2010, 01:32 PM.
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JellyBeanDriver


c140flyer
May 27 2010, 11:31 AM
Hi Jellybean,
I plan to do the conversion this weekend and wondered if you'd done yours yet. I bought the same Beck/Arnley seal you got. At last report the big rubber lip goes on the 'non-grease" side. Not the side with grease and bearings- correct ?
Thanks for your insight,
Larry

Edit: Assuming that the seal is installed by pushing on the "rubber lip" side,I had one of my machinest friends make me a tool for installing the seal. It's made of Delrin and is made so that force can be applied to the metal part of the seal without deforming the rubber lip. If sucessful, I'll let you borrow it.
Going to do it this weekend! Got swamped the other weekends doing brakes on the wife's PT cruiser, and didn't get the final pair of 13" steel wheels until 2 weekends ago. This is a 3day weekend for me so I'm hoping to get a lot of things done to 'The Bean'.

Yes to what you said. The first post in this thread is correct as far as which is side 'out' vs 'in'.
Rubber lip that protrudes is away from the grease side.

Be sure to lube the CV joint where it inserts and contacts the seal with some light grease.

I've got a small lathe and was thinking of making a press tool also. Thanks for the offer to borrow the delrin piece your friend made!!

Dave


Edited by JellyBeanDriver, May 27 2010, 02:46 PM.
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