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| Big emissions problems on my '90 Geo Metro | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2010, 09:21 AM (4,794 Views) | |
| alivedw | Jun 16 2010, 09:21 AM Post #1 |
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Hey guys, How many of you are starting to recognize my posts? I'm starting to feel like a regular. A few weeks back I posted my problem: I'd rebuilt the engine in my 1990 Metro (3 cyl, 1.0L, five speed) and had failed emissions in DC by a long shot. You guys were awesome and posted all sorts of responses and suggestions. I reset the timing to 8 degrees BTDC, checked for vacuum leaks, checked the throttle body coolant tubes for circulation, checked the MAP sensor (and rewired it while I was at it), put in a new air filter, and even tried to take the emissions test running a special Geo Metro 3Tech jet fuel that someone recommended: (1/3 91% isopropyl alcohol, 1/3 white gas, 1/3 87 octane gasoline). The check engine light is not illuminated. I am still failing emissions by a long shot. Results from this morning's tailpipe test w/ normal 87 octane fuel (IM240 result): HC: Reading: 13.03 GPM, Limit: 2.0000 GPM FAIL (more than six times what it should be!!) CO: Reading: 78.0522 GPM, Limit 30.000 GPM FAIL (more than 2.5 times what it should be!!) NOX: Reading: .57 GPM, Limit 3.0000 GPM PASS (so I guess I'm ok on NOX) So: What the HECK is going on here?? I'm so far off from where I need to be (i.e. HC six times higher than it should be) that I'm starting to suspect it's not a small problem but a big, dumb, simple problem. Possibilities: --Timing chain off by one tooth? --A misfire: Maybe I connected the spark plug wires wrong, or maybe one of the spark plugs isn't sparking? Can anyone give me advice on what could be tipping my emissions readings so far off the scale? Is there a way to check to see if the timing belt is off by a tooth besides just looking visually to make sure the marks line up? The engine has plenty of power to drive with but does idle kind of rough and sounds like it's idling fast. Really appreciate any advice, I love my little Metro but it's starting to drive me bonkers. |
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| crankcase | Jun 16 2010, 10:14 AM Post #2 |
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System has too much gas OR not enough air. Verify check engine light shows all is well. Set timing (while in timing mode) to 5, not 8. Use high test gas for inspection (alcohol ok, but white gas?????????????). Double vheck ALL vac lines. Verify good spray pattern from injector. Double check Map system? Cat. conv.? |
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| mcmancuso | Jun 16 2010, 10:27 AM Post #3 |
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TO be sure, you are running the engine at least 30 minutes of driving before the test right? This will make a huge difference if not. |
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| Bad Bent | Jun 16 2010, 01:48 PM Post #4 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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I've pulled the timing cover back and looked down to see if at 0o the lower gear aligned and the top cam gear mark was aligned, otherwise it's remove the alt. belt/H2O belt/underpulley and timing belt cover to check marks. Is the belt tight? ![]() Fast idle = vacuum leak, most likely - replace your vacuum lines for under $10. Don't even inspect them. Clean off the brass IAT in the air cleaner? Are the coolant hoses on the Throttle Body as hot as the radiator hoses? If clogged- engine thinks it's cold and runs rich. Try: www.smogtips.com/ www.type2.com/ Explains what the high and low readings mean. |
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| 3tech | Jun 16 2010, 01:54 PM Post #5 |
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Don't put my name on that. It's not mine. How's your cat? |
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| Bill CNC | Jun 16 2010, 02:14 PM Post #6 |
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Have you verified this? Your bulb could be out. Does the check engine light light up when you turn the key on? I JUST replace all my dash bulbs a month or so back with the best GE long life bulbs, ... and my right blinker bulb is ALREADY out! |
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| alivedw | Jun 16 2010, 03:59 PM Post #7 |
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wow guys, thanks for the responses. yes, i took the emissions test with a hot engine (running for an hour). mike, sorry to take your name in vain, someone on a previous forum posting told me that that fuel recipe came from 3tech. i will verify that my check engine light bulb isn't burned out. i'll replace all the vacuum lines (you're right, it can't hurt). good idea to check the injector. i'll check the timing belt to make sure it's on right. i'll try to clean up the IAT. you know, it could be the cat. is there a test i can do to determine if the cat is the problem? |
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| alivedw | Jun 16 2010, 04:40 PM Post #8 |
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and would a bad cat be throwing my numbers off this badly? the rough idle makes me think it's something else (though perhaps in addition to a bad cat). |
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| crankcase | Jun 16 2010, 04:54 PM Post #9 |
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The white gas might (hopefully it's burned off by now and did not damage the cat). You make a good point about how the cat would cause rough idleing. Maybe put a vacuum gauge on to see if the exhaust is clogged. I would make sure the injector is not leaking extra gas in. A problem with the MAP (small vacuum line not hooked up etc.) can cause nasty emissions. Make sure the check engine light is not trying to tell you something. |
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| Bad Bent | Jun 16 2010, 05:01 PM Post #10 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Do you smell rotten eggs when you are driving? One Cat. test. Another would be to disconnect it at the oil filter and see if it runs better with it disconnected. |
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| alivedw | Jun 16 2010, 05:16 PM Post #11 |
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Thanks for the responses guys. Re: testing the cat, no, I don't beleive I smell rotten eggs/sulfur. You mean disconnect the exhaust donut where it meets the exhaust manifold? Those two bolts are a PITA, and without the muffler on the engine will run so loud my neighbors are liable to call the cops. How would I test it without disconnecting? |
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| mcmancuso | Jun 16 2010, 05:17 PM Post #12 |
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White gas is naptha, won't damage a cat, don't worry about that. Its pretty common on these cars to have a bad cat, the engines are sooty and tend to coat the guts of the cat. You can get an aftermarket one pretty cheaply online. |
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| crankcase | Jun 16 2010, 06:41 PM Post #13 |
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Naptha, ahh! That makes more sense. Around here, South Texas, white gas is kerosene. |
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| Bad Bent | Jun 16 2010, 07:02 PM Post #14 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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So as options go you could get a hammer and bang on the Cat. to see if the mcmancuso soot is dislodged or click on Magnaflow Catalytic Converter - Stainless Steel, Direct OE Replacement, High Flow OE Replacement which is $110.91 shipped. IF that's the problem. White gas, I assume like Coleman Camp fuel is a naphtha which is a group of "flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixtures" of which Seafoam is one of them. I'm inclined to do the Coleman just to save money - Seafoam has a light oil in it which would create white smoke (watch out for the neighbors). However if you notice pics of engines with blown head gaskets the coolant cleans the cylinder. Now, we are looking for a clean engine so I took the passenger side window washer hose off and fed it through the air cleaner to the top of the Throttle Body then clamped down 3/4 of the air cleaner clips. I drove at 60-65 mph and gave the washer two very short squirts every 2 miles for maybe 11 miles. Stopped and reconnected the washer hose. It seems to run as well as a Seafoam treatment. Here is a YouTube of just spraying water into the intake and he says it makes a difference with .2 liters of water. http://www.youtube.com/watch.*Edit: Only mention this as an option and adjunct to what's been mentioned before. Edited by Bad Bent, Jun 16 2010, 07:05 PM.
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| Jittney | Jun 16 2010, 07:59 PM Post #15 |
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Anchorage 92 XFi
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This reminds me of another member who failed her emission test. She posted her results on her thread 'HC ppm 1256, allowed is 194. CO% 12.24, allowed is 1.09 NOx 97, allowed 1460...passed RPM 2194, allowed 3000, max CO+CO2% 17.6, allowed 6.0, min.' see the rest of her thread here.... http://geometroforum.com/topic/1345999/1/ the fix was a new Cat. |
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Now, we are looking for a clean engine so I took the passenger side window washer hose off and fed it through the air cleaner to the top of the Throttle Body then clamped down 3/4 of the air cleaner clips. I drove at 60-65 mph and gave the washer two very short squirts every 2 miles for maybe 11 miles. Stopped and reconnected the washer hose. It seems to run as well as a Seafoam treatment. Here is a YouTube of just spraying water into the intake and he says it makes a difference with .2 liters of water.
7:39 PM Jul 10