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92 1.0 Post rebuild won't start
Topic Started: Jun 17 2010, 08:41 PM (2,658 Views)
idmetro
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Ok Geo gurus - I am getting my behind thoroughly kicked. I have rebuilt my 92 1.0L with new rings (staggered the end gaps), new bearings (main and rod), SS exhaust valves, lapped all valves, cleaned and reassembled the lifters only to have it not start for several evenings now. Here is what I have checked:

fuel - quick and dirty put the line in a bottle, turn key, I can hear the pump activate and considerable fuel is pumped out
spark - spark at each plug, plug wires ohm within spec as does the coil
timing - I have set and reset the timing belt lining up the crank and cam timing marks multiple times now
grounds - I have removed, cleaned and reattached both grounds to the intake manifold
woodruff key - no visible wear/wobble
cam pulley - on the button with no wear or wobble
#1 TDC - I can see the piston at TDC when the crank timing mark is lined up
Battery - Battery trickle charged overnight and is currently on the charger

Finally tonight I moved the timing belt one tooth each direction with no effect, returned to what I believe to be the appropriate setting on the crank and the cam and she sputtered but only at WOT and will run for 30 seconds or so but only at WOT and only giving 1,000-1,200 rpm with an active misfire. WTFO!!!

What am I missing? I am beginning to suspect something is amiss with the valves/lifters and am planning on running a compression test to see but am wondering if there is anything else I have forgotten?
Edited by idmetro, Jun 17 2010, 08:42 PM.
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Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

Did you change the plugs? Plugs have bitten me in the arse a few times. Do you have the plug wires going to the correct plugs? Do you have the distributor installed correctly?



Rob


P.S. Break out the timing light and MAKE SURE it is timed correctly
Edited by Spock, Jun 17 2010, 08:48 PM.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

When the timing marks are aligned properly, Remove the distributor cap and the rotor should be pointing almost straight up to where the #1 post is. Firing order is 1-3-2
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96Geoman


Remove the center spark plug and start the engine. If it runs, your catalytic converter is clogged. Too much back pressure will keep the engine from starting.
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Memphis metro


You say you can see the piston up but it could be up on the exhaust stroke. The cam on mine had two marks and tried to confuse by looking at it. The easiest way to check is to look at your valves with the valve cover off and your marks at the same time. As soon as your intake valve on the number one cylinder closes, run your marks up. Then you should be up on compression stroke and in time if you have the right marks on the cam gear up. When it is right your engine will start with no trouble. Big John is right, if you have the right marks up and in time on the compression stroke on number one cylinder then the rotor is going to be pointing near the number one stamped on the cap or if your cap does not have one then it will be the wire that goes to the number one cylinder.





.






.
Edited by Memphis metro, Jun 17 2010, 09:48 PM.
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Memphis metro


96Geoman
Jun 17 2010, 09:19 PM
Remove the center spark plug and start the engine. If it runs, your catalytic converter is clogged. Too much back pressure will keep the engine from starting.
I usually on fords pull the tube off at the egr and they will run if the converter is the problem. Not too often you find one that is totally stopped up to the point it cant breath enough to run. Most of the time they just lack power. An engine usually has been running a foul for quite some time to clog the converter or has melted from misfire which causes excess gas to flow into the converter and overheating it to the point of melting it. Most likely not this guys problem.



.
Edited by Memphis metro, Jun 17 2010, 09:56 PM.
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Woodie
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Lifters are empty? Could explain why it wouldn't run at all and now runs crappy. It's moving toward the "runs fine" point as the lifters slowly pump up.
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starscream5000
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Got 70 MPG?

Let us know about the cam deal. You could very well be off 360 degrees with the cam gear. It happens...
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idmetro
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Ok here is the update:

New plugs - no change
Verified firing order of 1-3-2
Pulled timing belt cover and rechecked the recheck of the recheck of the timing marks - still right on
Verified cam pulley has only one timing mark and pin is properly engaged with pulley flush on cam face
Pulled valve cover to absolutely verify TDC (neither #1 cam lobe is depressing a lifter, one points front and one back)which agrees with piston at top of stroke and rotor pointing straight up - no change
Pulled plugs - #1 wet, #2 and #3 dry
Noted #1 piston wet looking as well
Pulled cam - removed lifters, lifters for #1I and #1E rock solid no give at all, remaining lifters had some spring
Recleaned lifters for #1I and #1E - reassembled and they had some spring so re-installed.
FIRED UP but would not idle and WOT gradually climbed eventually giving 3200-3500 rpm then gradually faded back to approx 2500 rpm @ WOT where it stayed for approximately 5 minutes.
Let car sit approx 20 minutes then tried again and now WOT only brings 1000-1200 rpm with notable misfire

I am now more suspicious of the lifters than ever and very much regret having "cleaned" them. Just how long does it take for them to pump up anyway? Over the course of the last week the car probably has 20+ minutes of cranking time and another 20-30 minutes of run time on it. Ideas?
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Mattaboy
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[ *  * ]
This is a similar problem that I am experiencing with my 95 geo metro 1.0. I rebuilt my engine recently and am unable to get it to start at all. When I first put everything back together I got it to fire right up and ran it for about 10 minutes. I put the thing in reverse and went to back it out of the garage and as soon as it experienced a work load, it sputtered and died. Now the thing won't start at all. I've tried it several times over the course of 3-4 weeks and it won't fire up. I'm getting spark, and there is no shortage of fuel supply. My first thought was that it must be a timing issue, but if that were the case, it wouldn't have run at all when I fired it up the first time. When I crank the engine, fuel is visualized shooting up out of the throttle body. The thing is definately flooding, even when I don't press on the gas. I've tried turning the key on and not trying to start it to see if the injector was driping fuel, and it isn't. The oil does smell like gas. I've clearly messed up on somthing, but can't figure it out. Any help any of you experts can provide would be greatly appreciated.
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Memphis metro


Mattaboy
Jun 18 2010, 10:17 PM
This is a similar problem that I am experiencing with my 95 geo metro 1.0. I rebuilt my engine recently and am unable to get it to start at all. When I first put everything back together I got it to fire right up and ran it for about 10 minutes. I put the thing in reverse and went to back it out of the garage and as soon as it experienced a work load, it sputtered and died. Now the thing won't start at all. I've tried it several times over the course of 3-4 weeks and it won't fire up. I'm getting spark, and there is no shortage of fuel supply. My first thought was that it must be a timing issue, but if that were the case, it wouldn't have run at all when I fired it up the first time. When I crank the engine, fuel is visualized shooting up out of the throttle body. The thing is definately flooding, even when I don't press on the gas. I've tried turning the key on and not trying to start it to see if the injector was driping fuel, and it isn't. The oil does smell like gas. I've clearly messed up on somthing, but can't figure it out. Any help any of you experts can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Check and see if your vaccum line is on your map sensor.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Is it throwing an engine code?

My FSM notes on valve lash adjusters are:
1. Never disassemble hydraulic valve lash adjuster.
2. Don't apply force to body of adjuster, or oil in high pressure chamber.
3. Immerse removed adjuster in clean engine oil until reinstallation. If it is left in the air, place it with its valve lash adjuster body facing down. Don't place on its side or with valve lash adjuster body facing up.
There is a actual picture of an 8" square baking pan with adjusters sitting in oil, recessed buttons facing up.

The distributor isn't cracked, rotor looks good and the Camshaft Position Sensors are clean? TPS?

Clogged exhaust?
Edited by Bad Bent, Jun 18 2010, 10:45 PM.
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Mattaboy
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Posted Image This is a picture of my engine just before I hooked up all of the hoses and wires. I have all the vacuum hoses just as they were before rebuild. Let me know if there is anything obviously wrong with it. Thanks!
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

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Woodie
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Mattaboy
Jun 18 2010, 10:17 PM
When I crank the engine, fuel is visualized shooting up out of the throttle body.
That is either valve timing off or a valve stuck open, nothing should ever move up and out of the throttle body, there should always be airflow downward, into the engine.
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