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| 92 1.0 Post rebuild won't start | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2010, 08:41 PM (2,657 Views) | |
| Mattaboy | Jun 19 2010, 01:04 PM Post #16 |
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New Member
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Thanks for the advice on the valve timing. It looks like it's time to disassemble again. Why would the car have run well at first, but then goof up like this? Did I just get lucky? |
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| idmetro | Jun 20 2010, 08:32 PM Post #17 |
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Brief update - I've had no real chance to work on the car this weekend but did get a friendly hand for an hour or so tonight and he also verified TDC, cam timing, distributor position were good (nice to know I'm not losing my mind). No cracks or issues with distributor or cap. No codes stored either. Together we also ran a quick and dirty (stick you finger in the plug hole and turn engine over) check for compression and found cylinder #1 has great compression while #2 and #3 essentially do not. Very interesting so in the near future my friend has voluteered to bring over his scope and take a look inside the cylinder while I pursue some replacement lifters as it appears more and more likely that my "cleaning" of them was not a good choice. |
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| crankcase | Jun 20 2010, 08:55 PM Post #18 |
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No compression due to bad lifters at starting RPM? Seems a bit odd; try turning the crank by hand to see if it feels "off" on the cylinders in question. Again, wrong valve timing would also cause this. Maybe try a double check with a compression tester? |
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| idmetro | Jun 22 2010, 09:56 PM Post #19 |
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Latest misery: - I don't yet own a compression tester so didn't get a chance to check compression with the 1000-1200 rpm max at WOT condition. But cylinder #1 would blow your finger out of the spark plug hole while #2 and #3 did virtually nothing when you turned the engine over by hand. - Pulled a donor head from pick-n-pull, stripped it down and removed lifters which were all as solid as rocks - Pulled cam again from head on car, removed lifters 1I, 1E and 3E hard as a rock, others could easily be compressed between thumb and forefinger. - Replaced same 1I and 1E lifter then traded all others for hard ones from donor head, buttoned her all back up and turned the key. She turned over twice and sprung to life! Much rejoicing transpired. She idled well and rev'ed easily. Let her run for a couple of minutes enjoying throttling her up and down. - Went for a drive and within 10 miles she lurched, shuddered, missed and returned to the condition where WOT only gave ~1200rpm then she coughed and died. - Neighbor came along and helped me tow her home where she will now turn over but will not fire at all. To add insult to injury she appears to have an oil leak from the left front head to block interface area. I have cleaned the area thoroughly to monitor it but at this point I expect to have to pull the head. -Compression test is next on my list but this is getting beyond ridiculous, this economy buggy is eating me alive in parts and time with no return in sight on the investment...
Edited by idmetro, Jun 22 2010, 09:58 PM.
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| Spock | Jun 22 2010, 10:34 PM Post #20 |
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Live Long and Prosper.
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Sounds like a cracked head to me. I'd pull it off and go over it with a magnifying glass and look for cracks (or anything else outta whack)if it was me. Or a damaged cam saddle? I dunno, just a wild guess there......something is way wrong with that head. Edited by Spock, Jun 22 2010, 10:36 PM.
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| idmetro | Jun 23 2010, 09:13 PM Post #21 |
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So with the car in the no start condition, tonight I borrowed a compression tester and got: 190/200/180 across cylinders 1/2/3, it will blow your finger out of all plug holes so a definite upgrade from the "cleaned" lifters. The battery was dragging by cylinder 3 so it very well could be higher than the 180 it registered. Plugs were more white than tan but did not look too abnormal (I am used to a bit more tan shade, but these plugs have all of 10 miles on them) I verified spark at all 3 plugs Ran out of time to check on fuel but I can hear the fuel pump run for ~3 seconds when the key is turned on Haven't yet checked for codes At this point I am now thinking I have a seperate fuel issue. Edited by idmetro, Jun 23 2010, 09:16 PM.
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| Spock | Jun 23 2010, 09:52 PM Post #22 |
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Live Long and Prosper.
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If you're valves aren't opening, it won't affect your compression reading. Still doesn't explain the oil gusher down the side of your head that you described. All you have proved with the compression test is that your rings and valves are in good condition.....and they should be, you just replaced them 10 miles ago. I still think it is time to pull that head and have a real good look around to see what is going on. I know others will chime in, but that's my 2 cents. I hope it helps. Please post back with what you find. Rob |
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| idmetro | Jun 25 2010, 10:04 PM Post #23 |
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Not quite ready to pull the head yet. The oil leak I described may or may not be a leak - I found oil on the little ear of the block that projects towards the front of the car at the front of the engine where it is not covered by the head. The small amount of oil there could have been from pulling the valve cover, cam and finally lifters. at this point I have cleaned it up and will keep an eye on it. Pulled the fuel line and put it in a milk jug, turned the key, pump actuated but only pumped something less than 1/4 cup of fuel in the 2-3 seconds the pump stays on after key actuation but no engine start. This amount of fuel seemed low to me so I pulled the line going into the fuel filter and ran the same test getting the same small amount of fuel in the jug so apparently the fuel filter is not jammed up but perhaps the pump is weak? How much fuel is normally pumped in that amount of time? When the pump was activated fuel at first spurted out of the line but immediately reduced to a small trickle, I was expecting to see a steady stream of fuel the entire time the pump was on. Anyone else run this type of test? What were your results? Put a little fuel directly into the throttle body and the engine fired up for a second or two so I believe fuel is the current issue. |
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| Spock | Jun 26 2010, 09:12 AM Post #24 |
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Live Long and Prosper.
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I have no idea how much fuel it should pump, but I think there's a better way. I don't know about a metro, but on every other EFI car I have worked on there is fuel pressure port for checking exactly what you are trying to track down. I'll bet a steak dinner that MWEBB or Johnny Mullet can tell you where that port is and how much pressure you should see. Regardless, going back to some of your original posts, if you have one dry spark plug and 2 wet ones, fuel ain't your problem. Hope that helps man, keep us posted. I am curious as to the outcome of this one. Could be me next time
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| Memphis metro | Jun 26 2010, 09:30 AM Post #25 |
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Metro and several other cars do not have a schrader to check fuel pressure. Most fuel pressure gauge sets include a adapter where you can tap into the inlet fuel line and then hook your gauge into it. With the fuel pump only running a few seconds that is what you will see, a squirt down to a trickle. Proper way to check fuel system is with a guage but if you just want to see how much fuel its pumping tap into the fuel pump wires and give it constant electricity and then you can see with it running what the volume is. Fuel pressures are, engine off and ignition on 23 to 31 psi. Engine idling 28.5-35 psi. These pressures are less than most other cars and trucks. . Edited by Memphis metro, Jun 26 2010, 09:46 AM.
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| idmetro | Jun 26 2010, 08:20 PM Post #26 |
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VICTORY!!! After making yet one more recheck of all connections I touched in this process I saw a suspicious portion of a wire on the 2 wire connector on the TBI near the TPS. When I touched the wire to get a hold of the connector to make absoultely sure it was connected it literally broke apart. I went and got an assistant, if I held the ends of the wire together while the assistant turned the carover it fired and ran. Fixed the wire and have driven 25 miles without incident. It appears I do have a minor oil leak at the front of the engine so that will have to be tracked down but I am willing to work on that tomorrow. |
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