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Running rough...
Topic Started: Jun 21 2010, 04:31 PM (1,442 Views)
gerryjarcia
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"Don't Be Fuelish"
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well, I just purchased a 3 cylinder, 1990 Metro. It’s a manual with 187,000 miles on the original engine. The mechanic shop I bought it from said they were selling it for a customer of theirs. The vehicle had been sitting for 2 years and the mechanic shop replaced the muffler and put new brakes on it and that’s it.

I drove it around a little bit and it felt like it was running sort of rough but I assumed it was nothing a tune up couldn’t remedy. “Running rough” means it was bogging down in first, second and third gear.

So today I took it to a local mechanic to have him do a basic diagnostic check on it and the first thing he did was run a compression check on it. The test was run and the numbers came back:

Cylinder 1= 100
Cylinder 2= 100
Cylinder 3= 60

I know, that’s not good. I made the mistake of assuming the mechanic who did the compression check knew to keep the throttle wide open when performing the compression test. I called him back and he said he did not keep the throttle open when doing the test. So basically I don’t know what the actual compression numbers are.

To sum it all up, tomorrow I'm going to buy a compression tester, a bottle of Seafoam, spark plug wires (spark plugs were changed today), an air filter and a distributor cap.

Can any of you fine, helpful folks recommend any other parts I might want to replace that could possibly be affecting the engine bogging down? I am a complete newcomer to Geo Metros and do not have much experience or expertise when it comes to working on cars (but I'm willing to learn and now is the perfect time to begin).

Could the car sitting for two years be attributing to it running rough? Could a massive carbon buildup in the engine cause the compression to read numbers as low as 60?

Can Seafoam save the day (Captain Seafoam comes crashing through the carbon buildup to save the day!)?

Thank you for your time and for reading this short novel.
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Rooy


Seafoam is probably not going to fix that unfortunately. You probably have some burnt exhaust valves, likely on #3 at the least. Forgetting to hold the throttle open will make the numbers low by ~30 psi.

Re-run the compression test with the throttle wide open, all plugs out, and also do a wet test by adding a little oil to each cylinder. If the numbers jump way up, in particular in that #3 cylinder, then the rings are the problem. But burnt valves are much more likely.
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Fireball 89
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2.4 Cylinders of Determination

Hi gerryjarcia-

Welcome to the forum. Take a few days to scroll through all the Geo Metro Forum resources and situations. The compression test is very important, here is a link that may be useful:

How To - Compression Test
http://geometroforum.com/topic/2574993/1/

There are a few more topics of interest in the Geo Metro Forum Garage, Guides/How To section. Pay attention to the pinned threads within each section.

After the compression test, then you'll have a very good idea where your power plant stands as far as performance and economy. If you've a burned valve (or two) don't despair. My ride has been puttering along for about 8 years on the same two cylinders. My boy and I will soon begin rebuilding the power plant and I know what to order and what to pay attention to, all because of the Geo Metro Forum.

After the compression test, then begin addressing the codes if any have flashed, throughout Metro maintenance, a few themes emerge, clogged EGRs, bad grounds, throttle body coolant passages are clogged, leaking o-rings, "all-the-oil-in-the-head" and a huge smoke trail behind the vehicle, etc. All in these pages for you to learn about and address.

Edward
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crankcase


Congrats on the "new car". Nothing like that new car feeling :rocker . I will give you my idea for a minimalist but practical approach.

They all sound a little noisy after sitting a while, but assuming you have no major noises or knocking
in the valve train or lower end, you should probably figure on doing the rings and valves (so you will not
have to get into the engine any time soon).

You will need a head gasket (They are a good deal on ebay, about $20), and 3 stainless exhaust valves
(Parts Dinosaur ?). If you have the extra money (about $20) do the timing belt since it is easy to do
when it's all apart.

Clean EGR system and passages (you year model may not have one ??). Other
things that commonly go bad can mostly be serviced without having to take apart the stuff
required to do the valves and rings.

Tie rod ends are usually bad and control arms, but you may be able to put them off. Ebay has a package deal
for tie rods, tie rod ends, and control arms for both sides for about $160.

Another thing that commonly goes bad are the wheel bearings, but again these can be put off untill they are
obviously bad.

You may want to do the cam seals and the front crank seal. The O-ring on the distributor shaft is the
source of many owner's oil leak; a major clue is a mees on the trans if that's the case. It's an EASY 10
min job to replace it and re-time the car though, so no worries. The cam seals are fairly easy to do anytime,
though when it's all apart is best, but the front crank is easier to do for shure when everything is apart.

You might as well replace the vacuume lines (buy the sizes and do 1 at a time to keep things straight).

Flush seperatley ( and both ways), the radiator, heater core, and throttle body coolant plumbing.

The donught gasket from the exhaust manifold to the tail piple is often toasted, so check it out (use a
small propane tourch to heat exhaust bolts to aid in removal. Use wax to lube.

These may be some door handle and window issues, but these can belt delt with whenever.

12" tires are a bit of a problem to find, but you can upgrade to 13" rims.

AC is a thorny issue and requires special tools and knowledge. Some have sucessfully
taken on the problem and done proper fixes though.

A new economy cam is nice, but it is an easy future project.

That's about all I can think off for the "new" Metro heads up list beyond basic tune up stuff.




Edited by crankcase, Jun 21 2010, 11:44 PM.
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gerryjarcia
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"Don't Be Fuelish"
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks for the tips, Fireball and Crankcase. I'll definitely be replacing the vacuum lines, good advice. No, it has no major noises or knocking. In fact, I changed out the pcv valve, air filter, plugs, wires, and dumped Seafoam in it and it started running a lot smoother.

The real test in power will be when i take this little go kart up into the Appalachian Mountains. Might be an interesting time chugging up those mountain passes.
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Woodie
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Doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, cylinder three being 40% low indicates a burned exhaust valve, something to be fully expected at 187K miles. It's not going to get better, and the other two are working extra hard to make up the difference, they'll burn soon.
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gerryjarcia
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"Don't Be Fuelish"
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Woodie,

It's hard to say exactly when the other two cylinders will burn (to quote Fireball 89, "My ride has been puttering along for about 8 years on the same two cylinders."). But I do agree, they will eventually go.

I'm gonna attempt to replace the valves and rings at some point in the very near future. I'll post photos of the adventure once it gets underway.
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hotdiesel80
New Member
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just had that problem 120,60,60 so i removed the head and found #2 exhuast burned with hole ,i guess it would have made another 1000 miles or better before droping a valve and distroying itself --- total cost now is a cheap 300 $-- head ,pistons ,rings ,rod bearings ,gaskets extras --water pump ,oil , plugs, belts ---60$ i guess if i could not fix it a rebuilt engine would be 1300 to 1500
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