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Help please? '89 Metro LSI
Topic Started: Aug 31 2010, 12:59 AM (2,209 Views)
Coche Blanco
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trident
Sep 3 2010, 01:46 AM
From memory re: compression testing: wet/dry results are low dry and then higher wet = it needs rings. Close or the same wet/dry = worn valves. Yes?
Yes, that is right. But if it needs valves, go ahead and do rings. If it needs rings, you probably don't have to do the valves.
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trident
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Makes sense. I really didn't want a project. I just sold all of mine, bleah. I'm planning to stop at HF tomorrow, and get a proper comp test kit. I've got one from about 1972, it's still in the K-Mart Tune Up Kit box. You have to hold it in place. Yeah right, decent compression and the thing goes flying...

I'll look the manual over on r/r'ing the rings. I'd much rather just drop a head on it, that's something I could probably have done in a couple of hours. No sense buying parts until I know which end really needs help. If I remember right, the '89 just has one compression ring, and one oil control ring? I'm sure it's in the manual...

From looking underneath, it looks like I should be able to just drop the pan and then pop the pistons out the top. New rings, hone and bearings? It needs an oil pan gasket anyway. I hate leaky cars. I'll wedge some FSM review in between my BIOL 130 an WRIT 315. I'd much rather study the service manual, anyway... ^o)
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Rooy


All Metros except the XFI should have 2 compression rings and 1 oil ring. Only the XFI had just 2 rings.

Are you sure it's the oil pan gasket? The cam and crank seals are a common leak. You'd have to remove the timing cover to check.
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trident
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I'm not sure, thanks for letting me know. I was hoping to put a timing belt in at some point, it's cheap insurance. Maybe sooner than later. If it gets another head, then it'll get a new belt. If it absolutely needs rings, I'm not sure I'm going to mess with it much more.

The only thing really saveable is the glass, and maybe the aluminum rims. It's beat pretty badly, I definitely got what I paid for. This is the first cheap car that's 'bit' me in a long time. Guess it was bound to happen sooner or later, should just save my money and buy something a bit better in the first place...

We'll see. The only ring kit I can find is $270 or so, and that's more than I paid for the car. A local engine is $550, and that just seems really stupid. Maybe I'll magically fall madly in love with it, and just HAVE to fix it. Magic 8 ball says....
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idmetro
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Much better prices that $270 here: http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page17.html Lots of us on the forum have used 3 Tech stainless exhaust valves and head bolts as well http://geometroforum.com/pages/3tech

Good Luck!
Edited by idmetro, Sep 4 2010, 08:27 AM.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

i've "freshened" g10 engines several times with the block in the car. drop the oil pan, remove the rod caps, slip lengths of rubber hose over the rod bolts so you don't nick the crank journals, and pop the piston assemblies out the top side.

drape clean cotton cloth over the crank before you run the hone. again, be very careful not to nick the crank with the tool.

even on high mileage g10s i have been lucky enough that the bores weren't out of round but i still check every time. there's no percentage in honing an oval bore let alone putting new rings in one.

i agree that the cam or front main seal will leak before the oil pan flange does. for the most part, the flange on the oil pan is well above the crankcase oil level and the crankcase is vented so there isn't much pressure there to force oil out at that point.

forget using a cork gasket on the oil pan, use a good quality, heavy body silicone. make sure that you use a straight edge on the oil pan flange and use a punch and hammer on an anvil (i use my vise) to flatten the bolt holes.

i buy my rings at the engine rebuilder supply around the corner from me. even at retail, a set is only $35. i can get almost everything i need to completely rebuild a g10 engine including new pistons and thrust bearings for $270.
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trident
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You folks rock. Thanks for the internal parts links, and the general info. It's a pretty simple engine, I really appreciate your giving your practical experience with this stuff. I'll get it figured out.

My 12 year old daughter asked me if 'this would be her car someday'. I was pretty heartbroken, she turned down a '69 510 2 door for this beater? Makes me rethink the whole scenario. It is sorta' cute, with a couple hundred man hours, it might actually turn out ok. I'd rather she was in this than the souped up dime anyway...

I should add a disclaimer here. I have nothing against Metros or Geos. It may sort of sound like that. What's going on is that I'm more PO'd at myself for buying a rig cheap and thinking it would be a daily, in this case it just happened to be a Metro. I actually love the 3 cylinder set up, and being a 5 speed this car should do well on fuel. I've got most of my water4gas kit set up for it, but it needs compression before I introduce any additional mods.

I'm glad I joined this forum, I expected much more flaming, you've all been super helpful. Once I get the digital camera back I'll snap some photos to share. Be ready, it's beat. :ermm:
Edited by trident, Sep 4 2010, 03:49 PM.
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trident
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A testament to these engines. Are you ready?

Compression test:

Dry 1=90, 2=85, 3=52
Wet 1-105, 2=85, 3=60

And it ran/runs. Guess I know what it needs now, a head and rings.

I was wondering why it just didn't seem to have any 'pickup'...now to determine if I continue working on it. Family conference time.
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

12 year old daughter? have her help. Now where's that picture of metro_fiend's geo truck he made when he was 12?
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idmetro
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Absolutely have the daughter help. She will gain valuable experience and confidence! She could even grow into a 20 something daughter like mine who likes to go to wrecking yards because she "imagines what all the cars would look like if they were fixed up".
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trident
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She's a pretty good sport about helping me out. Since it won't idle, I had her holding the throttle down a little bit while I was trying to time it. I'm at a crossroads with this car though. I simply don't have time for an engine rebuild. I did just take it for a spin, it runs like it's only got two cylinders...hahaha...

Got it home, timed it properly shut it off, and it won't restart. This engine is done. More to come as we decide if we'll pass it on to someone here, or if we'll try to source some parts...
Edited by trident, Sep 4 2010, 08:55 PM.
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work car
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obsessed!!

1.how much money is in the car right now....total cash outlay....

2. how much to fix??

3. how much do you have to spend on a different car..and..

4. how much do you think you will get out of the geo "as is"

#1+#2 = HOW MUCH??

#3+#4 = HOW MUCH??

whichever one is higher is the one you do add up the numbers and show them to your family and have them help you come to a conclusion.
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trident
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Under normal circumstances, work car's equation makes sense. For our situation we need to add:

Job 1 40 hrs week
Job 2 25 hrs week
College 16 credit hours per semester (8 credits per, 8 week session)

Time is not something I have to spare. Another rig would be fastest, maybe I'll just have to cut my losses...
Edited by trident, Sep 4 2010, 10:07 PM.
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Coche Blanco
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trident
Sep 4 2010, 10:07 PM
Time is not something I have to spare. Another rig would be fastest, maybe I'll just have to cut my losses...
We won't be mad. :)
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trident
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*sigh*. It's pretty much a wash either way. The title on the car had been reassigned to the guy I bought it from. He in turn gave me a bill of sale. Which means if I wanted to sell this car (as a car), I'd first have to get a title. That's another $54. I could potentially scrap it, but I'd be lucky to get $100.

If we keep it, with the intentions of passing it to my daughter, it needs a tremendous amount of work. To even drive it daily, it needs an engine, clutch and all four struts. It looks like Job #1 may be terminating 9/15 and I've no other hope of full time work. I'm committed to college until I complete by Bachelor's in Spring 2012, so in the long term, it might be a good move to 'restore' this car. The campus is only about 8 miles away, but if I can find another full time job it could be anywhere from 6 -50 miles one way..
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