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1.0 running rich
Topic Started: Sep 19 2010, 04:35 PM (7,085 Views)
BentRods
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After resetting codes, I only get Code 12, which apparently Does not exist????????????
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

Right!


What's your timing?
Edited by Coche Blanco, Sep 21 2010, 04:55 PM.
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mcmancuso
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code 12 is "all clear"
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

If your engine is smoking and only 150 psi compression them It could be time for a rebuild as mwebb suggests.

Next is intake vacuum. I have a compound gauge for pressure (compression test) and vacuum - which detects bad valves and leaks.

Next is a bad O2 sensor. Without stripping the wire you can use mwebb's Connections with a T pin. and get that <$20 DVOM.

Have you changed or cleaned your PCV valve? Oil in the air cleaner? Clean all your ground wires and especially the The Ever Elusive "Intake Grounds".
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mwebb
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FOG

BentRods
Sep 21 2010, 02:47 PM
Compression from what I have read here is ACCEPTABLE (150 x3). WAS running fine EXCEPT Running Rich, power good, no misses, no problems. Cleared codes prior to compression test. no new codes. Engine at operating temp for test, at full throttle.
NO Vacuum Gauge, NO DVOM
Spray pattern -- will check, hadn't thought of that! You guys are a great help, 'cept don't understand half of Mwebb's posts (LOL), but i try. Wish I knew half that much about anything, Thanks Mwebb, and all.
awww shucks ....

you do have to answer my questions in order to use some of my knowledge

test , do not guess

ready , begin
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

Coolant temp sensor on thermostat housing. Is it telling the ECU the engine is cold and running rich? There are 2 sensors. The sensor with one wire is for the gauge, the other is for the ECU.

These cars will run with 90 psi before an actual missfire occurs.
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BentRods
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checked everything you have suggested, as best can be done without a full line of electronic gadgets, still black smoke, drinking gas. My Coolant temp sensor is in TB, replaced, No change. No codes, engine sounds fine, drives fine. Less than 20 mpg ??????
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

I haven't seen any comments on the condition of the;

Distributor and rotor age, cracked?
The new spark plugs; brand, number and gap?
Age of spark plug/coil wires?
Air filter clean?
PCV age and "Y" tube, clean? Oil in the air cleaner?
What is the ignition timing? o is recommended. timing.
Age of the timing belt?
Age of the vacuum hoses?
Tested the Vapor Canister?

Do you have a DVOM (meter)?
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mwebb
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BentRods
Sep 28 2010, 12:34 PM
checked everything you have suggested, as best can be done without a full line of electronic gadgets, still black smoke, drinking gas. My Coolant temp sensor is in TB, replaced, No change. No codes, engine sounds fine, drives fine. Less than 20 mpg ??????
test - do not guess

you will need to buy a DVOM and a vacuum gauge
yesterday . which is the MINIMUM level of tooling you NEED to have .

you can not expect to fix the broken car without being able to ascertain what is wrong with it first

throwing parts at it is always a bad idea .

many here can walk you through testing procedures , if you provide test results AND follow the instructions provided
you MUST do your part .
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

Bent Rods, trust mwebb when he says "test, don't guess". That man is a genius. You will find his advise hard to follow at times, but if you reread, reread, reread his threads you will soon understand what he is talking about. Mwebb has a distinct style of writing that takes a while to get used to. I noticed you are new to this site. Don't get discouraged by the way we put ideas out there. We only want to help. But you MUST help yourself by listening to what people like Mwebb has to say and do your best to understand why he is telling you what to do. His only fault ( a very slight one) is not explaining in exacting detail how to hook things up. ( I.e. put the red wire on the right terminal of the blue plug). Once you learn mwebbs style you can figure it out.

terry
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BentRods
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From reading here, and other postings (on this Forum) about running rich, black smoke, poor mileage, etc. --- it appears no one has an answer!!
GiZMOS and GADGETS -- If Vacuum ain't right, How do I change it? If Voltage ain't right How do I change it? Thanks For Ur effort, I'm Sick of the little piece of Junk----My Sons Car, DON'T ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cdmccul
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Report back the findings of your test, and the answers or possible solutions will come pouring forth...
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mcmancuso
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vacuum not @ 20mmHg and stable means you've got a vacuum leak(<20) or a valve problem(flutter in gauge)

I started this, its not done, but its a good idea of where to start looking:

All tests at hot idle unless otherwise noted

........yes-------Does your metro get good gas mileage (45+MPG)?-------no
.........|.........................................................................................|
.........V........................................................................................V
>DON'T F WITH IT!<................................................yes--Is it automatic or 4cyl--no
.............................................................................|.......................................|
.............................................................................V....................................|
..........................................................Crush it and start over...........................|
..........................................................with 3cyl 5spd......................................V
......................................................................yes----Is your dry compression good?----no
......................................................................|........................(150+).....................|
......................................................................V.....................................................V
..................................................Are your TB coolant lines......................yes-Wet comp.?-no
..................................................as warm as the radiator........................|......................|
.........................................yes--lines after the car heats up--no...............V.....................V
..........................................|.............................................|........time for re-ring....bad exhaust valve/s
..........................................V............................................V..............................new valves/poss. re-ring
........yes--vacuum @20mmHg and stable?--no....................clogged lines
.........|..................................................|...................clean them out
.........V.................................................V
..something else..........................low-leaky/missing vacuum line
..............................................replace all to avoid missing one
................................................unstable-valve problem
Edited by mcmancuso, Sep 29 2010, 02:01 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

cdmccul
Sep 29 2010, 01:22 PM
Report back the findings of your test, and the answers or possible solutions will come pouring forth...
:gp cdmccul. Usually how it works, eh.

Distributor and rotor age, cracked?
A distributor over a year old, the contacts could be worn or corroded, when were they cleaned last and what about the rotor, is it clean? The electrical spark also causes erosion on the metal surfaces and the gap widens. Therefor the current weakens and the current flow to the plugs is lessened so the spark is weak and combustion is less so some fuel may be passed on to the catalytic converter ruining it. Dist. cracks are usually hairline.

The new spark plugs; brand, number and gap?
NGK is highly recommended and is it the BPR6ES-11 or BPR6EY-11 because if it's the 7 then you have the wrong plug. Do not trust the box or the counter person. If the gap is wrong it may be causing fouling. Also grounds from the engine to the frame need to be clean for the current to be able to flow back to the battery ground.

Age of spark plug/coil wires?
If the wires are cracked the electricity will find the shortest distance to ground. You can run the engine in the dark and spray an extra fine mist on the engine/wires and see arcing from the wires to the engine or else were.

Air filter clean?
Severely clogged is less air being pulled in and will affect your FE.

PCV age and "Y" tube, clean? Oil in the air cleaner?
If it clogs my FSM says a plugged valve or hose may cause; rough idle, stalling or slow idle speed, oil leaks, oil in air cleaner, sludge in engine. A leaking valve or hose would cause rough idle, stalling, and high idle speed.

What is the ignition timing? 8 deg. is recommended. timing.
If it's retarded you will loose power, have incomplete combustion and maybe even backfire.

Age of the timing belt?
It may have skipped a tooth and is causing valve timing issues, rough idle yada, yada, yada.

Age of the vacuum hoses?
Why bother, for $10 you can replace every vacuum hose on the car and not even think about if a vacuum leak is causing your problems. If you suspect vacuum then also spray carb cleaner on the TB gaskets.

Tested the Vapor Canister?
The canister purges fuel vapors. If one or two valves is clogged or the canister is not venting to atmosphere then those vapors could be going directly into the throttle body and it would run rich
Posted Image

Or your O2 sensor could be bad and it makes the ECM think the engine is lean and needs more fuel.

But if you start replacing everything then later on you will eventually hit on what the problem was and you will have a whole bunch of new parts on your engine and spare parts lying around. B-)
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myfreelife3
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Has any one thought may be the CAT could be clogged and forcing the engine to work harder/run rich? :hmm
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