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| Geo Metro Front End SMASHED in by speeding driver; CRASH DATA Support Needed SEE PICS | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 20 2010, 11:00 PM (8,471 Views) | |
| mwebb | Sep 22 2010, 11:05 PM Post #31 |
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FOG
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..."Mwebb you are not correct. I am sorry dude but reality check here. It is not illegal or even an issue to pull out in front of someone from a stop sign. I do it every day and YOU do it every day. Are you telling me there has NEVER been an oncoming car AT ANY DISTANCE when you pulled out from a stop sign? I call BS if you say yes."... K.I.S.S. on my planet the driver with the stop sign has to yield to the the driver without a stop sign that's just the way it is . so that is what i do , consistently . you do not have to like it or approve of it . you just have to live it . or face the consequences pbbbt . ========================== ![]() that is my audi , with the front swung to one side so i could replace the timing belt / water pump , a VW Passat is about the same , so there is the material under the plastic bumper and bumper cover that made contact with and damaged the famous metro in question , note the relative lack of apparent robustness . i very much doubt the VW was "speeding" because as per the OP it was not damaged badly Edited by mwebb, Sep 22 2010, 11:58 PM.
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| slander | Sep 23 2010, 12:57 AM Post #32 |
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Tech Certified
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Were you at a stop sign, waiting to turn, while the other vehicle was coming from the left, or the right? Or was the vehicle coming straight at you? From what I'm getting, is you were waiting to make a turn (or go straight through an intersection for that matter) and the other vehicle was traveling perpendicular to you before making a turn or otherwise, therefor, why is the damage to the front of the vehicle, and not the sides? I'm a bit purplexed by that. |
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| Dmitri | Sep 23 2010, 01:47 AM Post #33 |
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New Member
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Judging by the fact the front end is clearly swayed pretty hard to the Right, and bulk of damage appears to be mostly straight-center,here's what I picture happened. Metro: pulling out from a stop sign,making turn to left. VW: traveling straight. VW sees Metro,tries evasive maneuver,probably slows down somewhat, ends up hitting Metro with corner of front bumper to middle of Metro's front. Enough damage to write off the Metro several times over,and considering how much the rails are probably bent over, not a job for a home mechanic. |
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| slander | Sep 23 2010, 02:17 AM Post #34 |
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Tech Certified
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I agree, but look at the damage in the middle of the hood and bumper skin. It doesn't look like a classic glancing swipe. It appears as though one of the two vehicles was in mid-turn, albeit slight turn, to cause that kind of damage. |
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| 59RamblerWithFins | Sep 23 2010, 02:19 AM Post #35 |
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![]() Stop calling me dude and bro, dammit, I'm a gurl Some of you have not looked at the link www.EvasCar.Weebly.com with my story on it and are assuming I'm just trying to get out of a ticket/fine, increased insurance (I've never been at fault) or get the cost of a replacement Geo. That is actually the least of my motivation. This short stretch of road is very hazardous and I almost lost my life because the police and boro do not enforce the law and allow people to line up illegally in the center left turn lane for thousands of feet making a left turn difficult and very dangerous to attempt. I ALMOST LOST MY LIFE. There are many accidents here. If your loved one got killed here would you be upset or would you just say move on? I am not the first one to be in an accident here but I just might be the first to blame the boro for allowing this type of life threatening situation to go on. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY ACCIDENTS here. How many accidents or deaths is it going to take before they change the road or enforce the law? I was not hurt but I could have been killed or crippled. When something like this happens to those that say I should let it go I'd like to know how they would feel if their life or the life of a loved one is changed or taken away. THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT the loss of my Geo. It is 99% about me almost loosing my life because unsafe driving is allowed by a boro during rush hour traffic making left turns hazardously dangerous. I should have been hit on the driver's side door and I would be crippled or severely injured. I literally felt like I had a near death experience. She never braked and she didn't have control of her speeding car, she turned towards the lined up traffic to her left (how scary is that?) and then into my front with her right front corner bumper. I only got a bump on my head. She could have veered safely behind me or to the right and went down an empty road or even over a curb. NONE of those three choices have people or cars involved. She did not have control of her speeding car in a 35mph zone. I'm just grateful she didn't hit me by the door and cripple me cause she was speeding. I'm not grateful to the point that I can look the other way cause she could have killed or crippled me by speeding. That would be stupid. In Pennsylvania, a speeder has some if not all culpability. They are the ones who are breaking the law. Not the person who sees the lane is safe to cross (cause there are no cars doing 35 mph or within that distance or time frame that it would take to safely cross an intersection). Speeding is against the law no matter how you look at it. I just want to prove my innocence and sue the boro and police department. I respect any and ALL opinions both pro and con. Whether it turns out she was speeding or not, I think she was but if my vehicle doesn't look like it was hit by someone speeding then I have NO problem dropping the issue with her. THAT is why I posted here to get you guy's opinions. I appreciate Coche Blanco's video and will be researching that some more. My car did not crinkle up like the video he posted of a Geo hitting a wall going 42mph. This gives me a little bit of concern that I might be wrong BUT I'm wondering what kind of damage a corner or say a telephone pole would do to the center of a Geo. Again, I'm not trying to shirk responsibility. I HONESTLY feel she was speeding. I WAS looking at every direction in the hazardous situation I was put in. The boro and cops are at fault for allowing a hazardous situation because they do not enforce the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation's road lines which are clearly painted and indicate that NO ONE is allowed to use the center lane as a lane to line up in for thousands of feet to wait for a light to turn green! Because of this it made my left turn precarious to say the least. Still, I DID look and make sure no one was in the immediate vicinity and etc. and I was just shocked to be hit from out of no where and with what I BELIEVE was incredible force! If she hit my door, I'm POSITIVE I'd be crippled or worse. So, it is my belief she was speeding, I could be wrong, I am here to get opinions on the damage. If the cars were lined up on the right hand side of the road where they are supposed to be, then I could have safely pulled out infront of a stopped car, pulled into the center lane and then merge with traffic and went my merry way. End of story. But nooooo. It was and IS a very unsafe situation and there have been many accidents here. I can't stress enough how I felt like I should be dead after she hit me. I did not appreciate being put in such a situation and then on top of being put in a bad unsafe situation I was hit by a speeding car. I guess there are those of you, who have not read the full story on my link, are just thinking I'm upset about my car...I'm upset cause I almost lost my life because I was put in an unsafe situation and I want to prove she was speeding on top of it all. If all I had to do was watch to my left for only the traffic on my left then I could have given more attention to even a speeding car coming from the left before I could enter the safety of the center lane...and then I could take my time to merge safely into the opposite street after that. But nooo. I was given a tiny space to try to scoot through and I had to do it quickly before the opposing traffic caught up to my spot and I had to watch the opposing traffic AS WELL AS THE traffic to my left! That's very hard to do and that is why so many accidents are there. THIS CAN BE PREVENTED if the police department enforced the law! @dayle1960 I know from now on I will be looking to see if someone is speeding next time! Could have been a tractor trailer and then what?! I'd still be in the right cause the truck was speeding...dead right! lol @ Slander...If you had case law or statutes to quote you might have won your case. Just cause the judge ruled against you does not mean it was a correct ruling. Usually if the case got escalated to a higher court you have a better chance of winning. Sorry to hear you lost your case. Also, I was trying to make a left turn photos of her car, the intersection and stuff is on the link above. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN HIT ON THE SIDE. THANK GOD I WASN'T. The woman turned her car to her left TOWARDS several stopped cars TOWARDS the empty space between two cars, where I was trying to drive through to reach the other side of the road and turn left. She then swerved to the right to hit me in my front! Again, she could have swerved to her right and avoided everything. @Nerys...yes, what you said is what I am finding. I am not trying to shirk responsibility in this case. I just know what I did and how I pulled out and there was nobody in my immediate vicinity and I pulled out thinking it was safe but she was speeding and I'm pretty sure she saw she had this last stretch of road that usually has no one pulling out from but this day I was there and she floored it to get to the light. Yes about the blind spot as well. So sorry to hear you lost one of your eyes. Your blind spot theory is very interesting. I will never ASSUME a car in the distance is not speeding after this accident! @MetroRob...I've got the car posted here and on Craigslist Harrisburg. Don't know how much damage is to the unibody so I don't trust the car...the engine and tranny are excellent though with only 121,000 miles and I'm hoping someone buys it. Asking $400.00 for car as is...is that a fair price? Four tires are almost new. If it doesn't sell, I'll drop it to $200.00 in a week or two. @Bogs...Thanks Bogs! @horn1207...yes, I'm grateful it wasn't my Rambler. :-) @Ryan...Thanks Ryan, it's not just about the Geo...it's about the boro/cops and hazardous/preventable/enforceable conditions that would have made it safe to cross the road. @Dmitri...not trying to be a pain about it. It felt like I got walloped and I never saw her in my line of vision which is why I think she was speeding. I'll respect your opinion but I want several more from people that can back it up. Whether it looks like I was hit by a speeder...or not. Coche Blanco's video is making me wonder if she wasn't speeding...though I think she was. Never thought about talking to auto body shop employees (thanks for the idea) but now I'm going to print some pictures and get a couple of professional opinions. If I'm wrong about her speeding, so be it then it would be my fault, I have no problem with that. If I can get 2-3 professionals from local body shops to say that they don't think the other driver was speeding I WILL POST this info and drop that issue. I wont be dropping the hazardous situation the boro is allowing to go on that has caused me to feel like I came a hair too close to death and that caused others for years now to have similar accidents. This is an enforceable situation that they ignore. @BadBent...You sound like you've had an interesting life! Cool link of Roseberry town with 20 old and historic buildings from all over the valley, including Finnish cabins from early settlers, a Finnish Blacksmith Shop, the old McCall City Hall, a Carriage House, Bandshell, one room School House and much more. THAT's what I'M talking about! lol Tisza has long woolen dread locks (mop dog) and she got into brambles and I had to cut her leg fur short. Grrrr. My girlfriend breeds Poms! They are awesome little characters. I bought the Rambler cause the front passenger seat folds down flat so Tisza could stretch out comfortably! Driver side seat lays flat as well! Great car for traveling and sleeping in if I get tired. Doesn't have a shower but I don't plan on being gone for longer than two days anyways. I'm just photographing Pennsylvania Barns and Farms. If that book goes well then I'll have to get an RV and do other states! As the song goes "Life's been good to me so far!" I'm 51 going on 30 something and been to Europe and other states. I'm really looking forward to hitting the road and exploring Pennsylvania. Going to check out the roads via an aerial satellite map and look for roads that look like they have a lot of farms. I'm also writing a couple people involved in restoring old barns like your friend is doing with Roseberry town and asking them for tips. I'm going to Lancaster to respectfully photograph some Amish barns and farms. They don't like getting their images photographed. Thank you for the warm welcome and good tips! I'll have to post a couple pics of the Rambler soon. It's a very cool old car inside and out. |
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| 59RamblerWithFins | Sep 23 2010, 02:31 AM Post #36 |
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dimitri, slander...look at the link http://www.EvasCar.weebly.com that has more pics of the intersection and of the other car along with a much more detailed description of how I pulled out. The pic I'm posting here isn't accurate. Go to my link above to see actual photographs of the intersection. VW hit me with their right front corner fender but I was already in the middle of the lane. I did look to my left and there were no cars in sight. I next looked at the SUV in the middle lane to make sure they see me pulling infront of them where they left a small space for me to pull through to cross the lane. Even in that "second" I should have been able to see a car down the street (look at pictures on my link) I pulled out and started to look to my right cause I was put in a situation where I would have to immediately enter the opposite lane before the cars that were turning into the lane from the red light 20 some car distances away were approaching. Boom, boom, boom...and then BOOM! Again, I appreciate any and all opinions...not just ones in my favor.Picture below is not accurate but give you some idea.
Edited by 59RamblerWithFins, Sep 23 2010, 02:44 AM.
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| slander | Sep 23 2010, 02:36 AM Post #37 |
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Tech Certified
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I'm not accusing you of anything. That's just my observation, and in which I didn't say which vehicle was turning. However, I do believe this one is probably best left to police investigators. If you're not happy with the police department's investigation, you may want to hire a private investigator. It's very hard for anyone here to give you a proper professional opinion with minimal pictures and only a one-sided history of events. If the intersection is as busy as you say it is, there must be others that witnessed the accident. Did you get their testimony? I'm curious as to if the police did, and did that sway their findings. |
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| bogs | Sep 23 2010, 02:53 AM Post #38 |
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Duct tape heals all wounds
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I knew you was a gurl right off, that picture was a dead give-away the first time you posted it
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| 59RamblerWithFins | Sep 23 2010, 02:53 AM Post #39 |
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Slander, no the police did not witness anything. The Sargeant was rude to me from the get go. ONLY reason I can think of why he treated me like a third rate citizen is cause I put skull head decals and seat covers on my Geo. I'm into heavy metal & rock and roll. He actually YELLED at me cause I asked the girl if she was on her cell phone as I was wondering why she didn't brake. He yelled at me "EVA! HERE'S YOUR PAPERWORK!" and he shoved my documents in my face! I do not like being disrespected (I was dressed in a nice dress and looked like a lady not some freak) and I yelled back at him "You don't have to yell at me, I can hear you!" He was weird towards me from start to finish and nice to the other woman. Two witnesses that are stating they did see me pull out infront of her. As you can see by the posts under this heading are kinda 50/50 about whether a speeder is at fault or the person pulling out into a situation that would appear safe if no one was speeding. Edited by 59RamblerWithFins, Sep 23 2010, 02:59 AM.
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| 59RamblerWithFins | Sep 23 2010, 02:54 AM Post #40 |
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Oh Bogs
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| dayle1960 | Sep 23 2010, 07:31 AM Post #41 |
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Fastest Hampster EVER
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Well, after reading your description of what happened and looking at the pictures of the accident site, looks to me like the fault does not reside with the VW driver. The center lane was filled with cars waiting to left at the stop light down the road. That's what the turn lane is for, to turn left at the signal intersection. Your boro has traffic flow issues. (Reminds me of Branson MO.) You stated that the black suv was trying to make a space so you could turn left if front of it. How could you see the on coming traffic from the right if a line of cars turning left was obstructing your view? As you were pulling out into the clear space provided by the suv you must have THOUGHT the lane the red VW was traveling in was clear. I think you were more concerned with what was coming from the right (which was obstructed by the row of cars) and if you had room in front of the suv to squeez into. Looks to me you were not concentrating on the most immenant threat---a vehicle from the left coming at you. I would assume that you have lived in this boro for a while and know of the traffic patterns at this light(to the right in your photo), If you knew traffic backed up like this, why did you choose to cross at this intersection, why did you not choose an intersection that was controlled by a signal light? I would have to vote against you if I were in the jury box. I don't think you looked left, I think you were concentrating on crossing the intersection. Your focus was on the line of cars waiting at the signal light and the black suv letting you pass, not on the oncoming traffic. I DO agree with you that the red VW driver was distracted by using the phone, or something else, because of the lack of tire marks. If she were not distracted then she would have seen you pulling out in front of her. That will be hard to prove. terry |
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| Coche Blanco | Sep 23 2010, 09:16 AM Post #42 |
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Troll Certified
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Have you ever driven a car with ABS? I don't think i've ever been able to leave skid marks in a car with good brakes or ABS. Look at car and driver 60-0 tests, no skid marks. It would be hard/impossible to prove, and irrelevant. Edited by Coche Blanco, Sep 23 2010, 09:17 AM.
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| nerys | Sep 23 2010, 11:34 AM Post #43 |
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Grr
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"nerys, According to Washington State law (May not be applicable of course.), he would be at fault regardless for failure to yield. I had a very similar scenario play out several years ago" if the law is "applied" in the manner you say the judge applied it the law is wrong and needs to be changed. USUALLY (such as in NJ for Rear Endings) DEFAULT FAULT is assumed to be the one doing the rear ending but this is not absolute. all this means is YOU the rear ender are assumed at fault unless it can be proven otherwise. Default Fault. IE you have to prove the others fault. It sounds like your judge was a moron and took that to mean no matter what your at fault. I find it hard to believe the statute is worded like that. Did you ever dig up the statute used? I am betting the judge was improperly applying it. Let me give you an example. I am sitting at a stop light behind another car. The car in front of me decides to "back up" and slams into me. visually this is a "rear ending" how is it possibly my fault? (yes that's happened to me No I was not ticketed or found at fault in fact I told the guy not to worry about it since all the damage was on his car and since we both agreed the police left it at that and ticketed him (no idea what for) OP First all those cars are illegally in that lane. They should be in the driving lane until that center lane "opens up" into a turning lane. There is some negligence here on the part of the CITY for this pathetic traffic management. SECOND can you please draw a picture of how the accident occured? your picture is illogical. if the center lane was full of cars with a space for you to enter HOW did the VW turn into said center lane as the picture shows. ON FIRST GLANCE I would have to side with the police on this. You had a pickup turn right at your intersection blocking your view. AND you had a line of cars to your left again blocking your view. I would not have made that turn. its just asking for it. please provide a simple sketch of the positions when this occurred etc.. You say you did not SEE the VW - well WHERE WAS the VW regardless of your sight of it? ie once the impact occurs it would be pretty easy to show where the VW was. to do that damage she was most definitely going faster than 35mph. but again not enough information. was the VW in the travel lane or the turning center lane? was the VW in the center lane and then changed to be in the travel lane? Did it exist a parking lot? Either it was already in the travel lane and you just missed it (this is the most logical) and the VW also was not paying attention to YOU hence why you two intersected. I would lean toward dual fault you for turning into her lane ie not paying atention and her for not paying attention and speeding) If she came from the center lane or a parking lot there is a logic issue. How did she get to 50+mph before impact? Those VW's are not exactly speed demons. One thing to keep in mind. you are biased. no questions no argument. Its the way our brains work. you are missing a lot of data and your brain will "fill in" the data that it can. Since you are biased it will fill in the data accordingly. the problem is the police are ALSO biased no matter how hard they try not to be. SO once they presume who is at fault their brains will ALSO fill in the data accordingly to match the bias. this is perfectly normal human behavior and is why "eye witness" testimony is virtually useless (its only so valuable because other people "relate" to other people) it usually takes multiple eye witness testimony to "eek out" the actual facts for just this reason. I am a very logical person and try VERY hard not to be biased. It takes a massive effort to recognize the biased data your brain fills in to make up for missing information. I have been wrong many times and this is WITH this knowledge and trying to be unbiased. it is just human nature and its hard to dismiss. SO where was the VW. where did it come from? what was it doing? When you have someone DOING SOMETHING in a busy intersection to "assist you" that is a RED ALERT that should be going off in your head. All hands to battle stations. because now you have TWO PEOPLE - YOU and the SUV driver both taking INDEPENDENT non telegraphed actions that not one other car on that road is aware it or is reasonably CAPABLE of being aware of especially if they are doing something stupid like talking on the phone or speeding. Most accidents happen for this reason. I witnessed one recently and sadly a death occurred. Rt30 in Hammonton. 2 lanes each direction. an older couple stopped to turn left across the other 2 lanes (legally) an oncoming VAN from the other direct ALSO stopped to turn "left"across the other 2 lanes. I WAS in the position of the opposing car as I was passing the couple's car in the right lane at 50mph. The van signals to the older couple "go ahead" alas another car in the right lane travelling at full speed (50mph limit) did not see the couple's car because the white van was blocking the view and of course the couple did not see the other car because again the white van was blocking the view. In my head all this played out and caused me to go woh and I looked in my side view mirror (love the giant mirrors on my van) I saw it all play out as my defensive senses said this is NOT GOOD. as soon as I passed the white van and couple I saw the oncoming car and was like "oh shit" WHAM. the other car did not even have time to hit the brakes or do anything but slam into them. Got some nice video of them being medivacc'd out (those pilots are freaking GOOD) Sadly the wife did not survive the injuries :-( The older couple should not have made the turn they should have inched out until they could SEE the other lane of traffic. The VAN did not have this problem since he could see OVER the other car. The van should have gone first and the older couple should have WAITED. The turn was NOT SAFE. Period. I would now have made the turn. I would have signaled for the VAN to turn first since he can SEE what is behind me and once he turns I COULD THEN SEE what is beyond him. this is where our rules of society interfere with safety. The van was trying to be polite and gave deference to the older couple. In reality he unknowingly (and at no real fault of his own) killed them and then killed themselves by not realizing WOH I am turning into a 50mph lane of travel with ZERO sight of that lane. and now the younger taxi driver is going to likely have to FIGHT a lawsuit when he did nothing wrong and had no REASON to presume a car was turning in front of the van since at no point could he see the older couple's car nor SHOULD he needed to worry about such a thing. I practice extremely aggressive defensive driving. I tend NOT to make a turn or decision unless I Have at least TWO outs. If I don't have two outs I will usually NOT take the action even if it pisses someone off behind me. If someone removes an "out" I will take immediate and aggressive if needed action to reacquire that out. So for example if I am driving and I have chosen the middle lane I have 3 outs. Left Right and Stop. If someone comes along side me I get nervous. this just removed an out AND increased my danger since they can now swerve into me. I may or may not do anything depending on if their maneuver is temporary (passing) if someone then tail gates me this creates a "1 out" scenario that can be closed off at any time and immediate action is needed. Usually at this point I will slow down and "wiggle" the car. This will both cause the left blocker to pass ahead of me because I am slowing down and the "wiggle" will cause the driver behind me to either slow down or decide to pass and this will increase my distance and reaction time to anything in front of me. Either way my "outs" are restored. Aggressive Defense Driving. Edited by nerys, Sep 23 2010, 11:50 AM.
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| Stately | Sep 23 2010, 11:39 AM Post #44 |
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Geo cheerleader
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Sounds like this could be yet another of many instances where the law and common sense don't jibe. Like the driver to the rear is always responsible, no matter what foolish/insane thing the driver in front does. The law likes hard and fast rules, so cops can issue expensive citations on the spot without too much thought. The other driver has to be on crack, speeding, and texting at the time to even be considered to be at fault. In this case, to me, it appears the lady was not speeding judging from your damage (or was able to brake enough before collision to bring the speed down). It also looks like she was quite distracted, and the accident could easily have been avoided. However, pursuing this is probably a dead-end for you, sorry. What is important is you came out of it without major injury--cars can be replaced, life and limb, not so much! As far as safety going forward goes, I highly recommend a Motorcycle Safety Course (even if you have no intention to ride). They teach mad skillz in super-defensive driving--make one a much better car driver. Sure did my son and me. Extremely useful when driving a scooter w/ doors! My great aunt had a '59 red Rambler--she loved it 'til the day she died. Great car. Not sure its a model of safety, though. Midsize (by today's standards) with a good load of metal, but no crumple zones, makes a decent battering ram against smaller opponents--not so good against same size or larger. Lap belts up front? None in back? Airbags? (hahaha--Buck Roger's ride didn't even have airbags back then!) As a daily driver, I'd take my chances with an airbag-equiped Metro & skillz (obviously). But each to their own comfort zone (uncomfortable isn't safe). Good luck! Keep us informed, and welcome to the forum, dude Eva!
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| nerys | Sep 23 2010, 11:52 AM Post #45 |
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Grr
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The best protection against accidents is to be extremely aggressive at avoiding them and avoiding conditions that ENCOURAGE accidents. This SECOND part is what a lot of people miss. There is no point in being alert to an impending accident if you put yourself in a position where you can NOT EXTRICATE YOURSELF from the impending accident. |
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Stop calling me dude and bro, dammit, I'm a gurl

1:58 PM Jul 11