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Geo Metro Front End SMASHED in by speeding driver; CRASH DATA Support Needed SEE PICS
Topic Started: Sep 20 2010, 11:00 PM (8,470 Views)
Stately
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Geo cheerleader

nerys
Sep 23 2010, 11:52 AM
The best protection against accidents is to be extremely aggressive at avoiding them and avoiding conditions that ENCOURAGE accidents. This SECOND part is what a lot of people miss.

There is no point in being alert to an impending accident if you put yourself in a position where you can NOT EXTRICATE YOURSELF from the impending accident.
Those are exactly the points stressed and re-stressed in a Motorcycle Safety Course!

And never depend on the shell around you for protection! But, we Metro drivers, know that already. :thumb
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Dayle1960 who said "I would assume that you have lived in this boro for a while and know of the traffic patterns at this light(to the right in your photo), If you knew traffic backed up like this, why did you choose to cross at this intersection, why did you not choose an intersection that was controlled by a signal light?"
I am not from this area. I live 40 minutes away. I have NEVER been in this area during rush hour traffic! I would have had to back track for 10 to 15 minutes ot get to the same point or area.
@Dayle1960 who said "The center lane was filled with cars waiting to left at the stop light down the road. That's what the turn lane is for, to turn left at the signal intersection."
No, That long stretch of SEVERAL center left turn lanes is for cars coming from the side streets ONLY, that are wanting to make a left turn. NONE of the buildings to the left of the center lane can be accessed from the center lane cause there is a railroad track perpendicular to the street which goes under a bridge at a light to the right :popcorn ALL of those cars were lined up in the center illegally.
As to why I was there. I'm kicking myself! :smackface I was there to do a good deed, dammit. The truck infront of me was spewing an unusually large amount of gasoline out of his muffler, not just a little but it was basicly pouring out and he turned left into the Napa Auto Parts store. I proceded to go straight, turned left a couple thousand feet down the road into the Karn's parking lot, did a U-turn and drove back to the Napa Auto Parts lot and told the guy who was out of his truck what I saw and he was grateful. I could have turned left at two of the entrance/exit areas of Napa Auto Parts parking lot but I saw traffic was BLOCKING the center left turn lane so I then pulled into the side road where there was a stop sign where traffic was still BLOCKING the center lane area which was an open intersection and NO cars should have been stopped there! I then waited for a long time before I felt safe to pull out. I was WAITING for the light (the light for the cars wanting to come down towards me) to turn because right at that moment there would be NO cars in the lane just yet. The light just turned and cars were starting to come towards my direction from the right where the light was. I looked and there were no cars to my left in the immediate vicinity, the SUV lady was looking at me and the cars from my right coming towards me had just started to come my direction from the light area. I pulled out and got hit all within 3-4 seconds time. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be looking to the left and right at the same time. There's a reason why that center lane needs to be left open!

@ Coche Blanco...Good point about ABS brakes! However, I do not think she was driving the very rare GLI Wolfsburg VW with 1 out of 250 having ABS brakes...not sure, but I don't think that's the type of 1989 VW Jetta she was driving, but I could be wrong. should I have heard brakes squeeling? I heard no brakes. Also, I'm not up on "new cars" I love 70's big cars, regardless, back in my day accidents were judged by skid marks and cars braking. Is this different now?

@Nerys who wrote: "SECOND can you please draw a picture of how the accident occured? your picture is illogical. if the center lane was full of cars with a space for you to enter HOW did the VW turn into said center lane as the picture shows." Yes, I will do that later tonight. I was halfway into the lane...imagine tiny car inside the lane but needed to still go a few feet to start entering empty space infront of me...(she should have hit my door)...she swerved in front of the small space infront of me, towards the empty space infront of the SUV and then she swerved to the right to avoid the car infront of the empty space and she hit me with her right front in my center front. I was inside the lane when she hit me. The force of her hit pushed me back a couple yards and my car stopped where you see the leakage of antifreeze. Witnesses should have seen I got pushed back out of the intersection and then stopped...where leakage of antifreeze is...this indicates I was IN the lane (that is if witnesses state I got propelled back a couple yards and then stopped). My front end was over the man hole. Also look at the debris on the road. This debris flew to the right for several yards and so did she. She went flying by for an additional 3-4 car lengths along the right lane before she gained control of her car and stopped.

@Nerys who wrote: You say you did not SEE the VW - well WHERE WAS the VW regardless of your sight of it? I'm waiting from witnesses to tell me. I DID LOOK down most of the road but not the whole entire length, (this LAST time before pulling out) just the most important immediate vicinity which means the area that if a car were driving 35-40 or so mph coming towards me area that would matter. I didn't think anyone would be speeding. I absolutely have no clue where she came from cause I did not see her. I've been hit in a parking lot before by a car going 15-20mph. I know how that feels. I've slid on a sheet of ice going 35mph, I know how that feels. I'm no expert (I'm also no dummy) but I feel like I got hit well above 35mph.

@Nerys who wrote: Either it was already in the travel lane and you just missed it (this is the most logical) and the VW also was not paying attention to YOU hence why you two intersected. I would lean toward dual fault you for turning into her lane ie not paying atention and her for not paying attention and speeding)"... THIS I could agree with as this too is possible, blind sight theory, but I did look and saw no cars, again, blind sight theory is possible. I will have to rely on witness testimony. I was sitting there for a very long time observing everything and putting together a plan of "I have to look at cars coming from side exits of Karns, cars coming from other side lots both to my left. I have to wait for a space to open and then stay open, I have to wait for the right time from my RIGHT and when that happens I have to look at all the other areas I just observed. I know there was one time when this was not possible so I had to wait for light to turn a second time.I think I entered when the light just changed and the intersection was blocked so I sat and observed. The second time was no good and people moved. The third time the SUV stopped and I waited for light to change and then observed everything and pulled out safely into the lane towards the SUV and then looked to the right to be able to shoot through the empty space.

@Nerys who wrote: I would not have made that turn. its just asking for it. You are right but I bet you would have made the turn. My other option would be to turn down 15th street, go over two blocks and you come out to a place where you are at the top of a hill and people from the left come flying over. Still, you'd then have to turn right, go through traffic, turn right and be stuck in traffic (all wanting to go back towards were I was at cause it leads to a highway) and then turn left. AT A LIGHT. Also, something in my brain was compensating and saying this is what people do all the time otherwise the boro/cops would not allow this to occur and I need to follow through. At that time I did NOT know anything about the center lane being required by law to stay open. I thought everyone was legal and proper and I just needed to be aware and do the turn as everything is as it should be and legal so my fear was unfounded. According to you :D my brain was relating to the others and the situation and I thought that is how things were. It's not until after the accident that store owners who came out stated that the cars were illegally lined up and accidents happen there all the time, that I realized the situation was made worse because the boro allows this hazardous situation.

@Nerys who wrote: 'One thing to keep in mind. you are biased. no questions no argument. Its the way our brains work" and "the problem is the police are ALSO biased no matter how hard they try not to be. SO once they presume who is at fault their brains will ALSO fill in the data accordingly to match the bias.this is perfectly normal human behavior and is why "eye witness" testimony is virtually useless (its only so valuable because other people "relate" to other people)" ....I can tell you are a very logical and intelligent man :news The little I know about psychology and witness reports I agree with everything you said. Thank you very much for your logical insights and opinions both pro and con.

@Nerys who wrote: "There is no point in being alert to an impending accident if you put yourself in a position where you can NOT EXTRICATE YOURSELF from the impending accident."... I have to agree with you there. I usually avoid highways and stick to less traveled roads because a highway has speeding large cars and trucks and in my opinion is more dangerous than less traveled roads with lower speed limits. NO, I am not a ninny, I just feel safter cause so many people are on cell phones and so many people are not paying attention.
I just might take a motorcycle safety driving course as Gary mentioned

@Stately who wrote: "welcome to the forum, dude Eva!" Now using the word "dude" that way is acceptable! Thanks, dude, Gary! :rocker

@EVERYONE... :popcorn I will posts pics of under the hood showing both front frame? bars bent in a v shape through the fan and radiator up to the engine. Maybe then it'll be easier to judge...I'm also going to go see a couple body shops...didn't think of that till someone said they worked for one! I just thought other Geo small car owners might have been involved in similar or seen similar damages and might know. I will also upload a hand drawn picture of how I was hit since my web page aparantly isn't clear enough. I can understand how it's hard to comprehend. Again, I welcome all comments pro and con. Again, I am more upset with the boro and cops for allowing the hazardous situation and that is what I'm going to be arguing about in a court of law..
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Rooy


Question about your handle, 59RanbkerWithFins. What is a "Ranbker"? I assume you meant to type "Rambler" ?
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GeoStalker
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"Chicks dig me and guys think I'm cool."

Can't fight City Hall!

If you were ticketed, it will be nearly impossible to overturn, especially after some time has gone by and insurance companies have already been contacted. The police have moved on to other cases and will NOT be friendly to your challenge.

I agree with the previous posters who stated that the cost of fighting this will be more then the price of a "new" Metro. Moving forward you have a choice....accept the insurance payout (assuming you had more than liability only) or buy it back from the insurance company and invest in rebuilding it. The damage is significant but perhaps it can be done. If nothing else, sell it for parts.

It sucks the car was totalled, and I'm glad you're okay. Those 4 doors are hard to find, especially 5 speeds. My advice would be to move on and accept what happened.
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Potter
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Col. Potter

Sorry to hear about your metro hopefully you can find a good person to take it.... (chads4drhatch... watch the pics... the part you need may still be good! At least the doors might not have suffered)

Also about the big car little car thing.... I used to own a 61 new yorker for demolition derbys. I love it even tho I'm just a fart in the wind stature.... but I don't care if your in a big car or a little one.... collisions HURT. I put that new yorker thru 9 derbys before the frame was soo beat up the rear end wouldn't stay under the car. But ive gotten bad whiplash, parts of my body beat all to :shit ...

Took one hit to the drivers door in that yorker... that almost did me in for derbys... I bruised 2 ribs, fractured one, broke my arm, and knocked my knee (bad anyways) out of socket and one hell of a headache... if I wasn't wearing a helment it woulda been much worse.

In my opinion anyway you go your lookin for a world of pain. I srongly dislike airbags simpy for the fact that they shoot 30 gallon trash cans 20 some feet in the air. But we all can't drive with 5point harnesses, raceing buckets, full roll cages, hans devices, ect that save ppl every day on the track. So I leave all that up to the enginers that make us safe every day...... but its still gonna hurt.....

On another note... the metro sits just a shade lower than a 68 charger... the sheet metal, braceing ect on the doors are just the same if not slightly more reinforced than a metro... either way that door is gonna cave in and most likely beat the crap outta you.... been their done that... gonna do it again someday.

Anyone know where I can get a big block New Yorker sedan in ratty shape oh say 60-67?
Edited by Potter, Sep 23 2010, 05:04 PM.
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Coche Blanco
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59RanbkerWithFins
Sep 23 2010, 03:30 PM
@ Coche Blanco...Good point about ABS brakes! However, I do not think she was driving the very rare GLI Wolfsburg VW with 1 out of 250 having ABS brakes...not sure, but I don't think that's the type of 1989 VW Jetta she was driving, but I could be wrong. should I have heard brakes squeeling? I heard no brakes. Also, I'm not up on "new cars" I love 70's big cars, regardless, back in my day accidents were judged by skid marks and cars braking. Is this different now?
I'm confused with the point you are trying to make.

Cars with ABS or good brakes/tires do not leave skid marks, that is an inefficient way of stopping. She looks like she was in a 2000ish VW Jetta, those probably have ABS.
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Rooy...Who asked: "Question about your handle, 59RanbkerWithFins. What is a "Ranbker"? I assume you meant to type "Rambler" ?... " Yes Roy and I did click on a link/button under change profile user name to ask to get this changed (site instructions say it's up to an administrator) but no luck so far.
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Potter...WOW! You're crazy! I say that in the most sweetest way. :wub: Sounds like you've had a tremendous amount of fun getting banged up! :bump

I guess I should clarify big car vs. little car theory of mine. A metal car vs. a plastic car is what I was moreso implying. Everyone, please understand, I absolutely adored my little plastic car. With that said, I couldn't believe it when I grabed my little 2 door hatchback's front bumper and thought I would have a great deal of difficulty removing it from the one and only bolt that was holding it on but nooooo. The plastic tore in half like it was a cardboard piece of paper! WOW! I've had Barbie Dolls made of harder plastic...joke!

I once had a 1971 Cadillac Eldorado which the owner of a car wash instructed me to move behind a truck that was there to deliver gasoline. Truck driver was unaware and began backing up. D'ya think he moved me??? Nope! My Caddy stood her ground as the 8 wheeler's back wheel went up and over the fender/hood of my car! You should have seen my face! Ahhhh, truck! Backing up! Ahhhh! She was still drivable after that! I felt bad for the truck driver cause the owner told me to move back there. I was waiting till the truck got situated but the owner wanted me to move forward. Truck driver was at fault:(

THE CAR I OWNED BEFORE MY 1994 2 Door Geo Metro
This beast could have wiped snot with some of them derby cars eh?
Posted Image

@Coche Blonco: Who wrote: " I'm confused with the point you are trying to make" I'll rephrase it for you. She was driving a 1989 VW Jetta. In 1989 only 1 out of 250 VW Jettas had ABS brakes put on.

After researching the topic "cars with good brakes leave no skid marks" on the internet I have found that you are wrong. They DO indeed leave skid marks.

Also, after researching ABS and skid marks I have to say you are wrong again. "ABS equipped vehicles do indeed leave skid marks. The typical ABS skid looks the same as a regular skid mark except a little lighter and interrupted in a close pattern by the rapid locking and release of the brakes."

I DO thank you for your opinion but after researching it I have found otherwise.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

I sent Johnny Mullet a PM on the name change.

Check this funny out on air bags:
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Potter
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Col. Potter

They don't call me crazy ass potter for nothin ;) lol

Yea it was fun... that lincon would do nicely some folks do use them but I love the yorkers... its a step under the Imperial (also chrysler) and is outlawed from derbys because they are friggin tanks.

I do understand your theory and that's one of the reasons why I won't own a Saturn...(plasticars) but my thing is I've been thru all that crap in derbys.. you'd think that I wouldn't drive it but amazingly it holds together pretty decently.... got rear ended a few months ago and it has minimal structure damage.

:wub: you gotta love these little things. Their just so damn awsome!
Edited by Potter, Sep 23 2010, 08:48 PM.
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Potter
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Col. Potter

Bad Bent
Sep 23 2010, 08:02 PM
I sent Johnny Mullet a PM on the name change.

Check this funny out on air bags:
LMFAO.... if only that was real
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

Name change request approved!

I have been following this thread, but not commented. I do want to say that I am glad you or anyone else involved did not get seriously hurt :thumb
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

I found Subframe and Crashed the Man Metro for reference on fixing front frame damage but not at 35+ mph.
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Coche Blanco
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59RamblerWithFins
Sep 23 2010, 07:58 PM
@Coche Blonco: Who wrote: " I'm confused with the point you are trying to make" I'll rephrase it for you. She was driving a 1989 VW Jetta. In 1989 only 1 out of 250 VW Jettas had ABS brakes put on.

After researching the topic "cars with good brakes leave no skid marks" on the internet I have found that you are wrong. They DO indeed leave skid marks.

Also, after researching ABS and skid marks I have to say you are wrong again. "ABS equipped vehicles do indeed leave skid marks. The typical ABS skid looks the same as a regular skid mark except a little lighter and interrupted in a close pattern by the rapid locking and release of the brakes."

I DO thank you for your opinion but after researching it I have found otherwise.
Lady, i'm going to tell you this one more time, you don't have to listen.

First, good brakes/tires do not slide on dry ground if they are applied at 85% (SWAG) pressure. Tires grabbing the ground are much more efficient at slowing the vehicle than tires sliding. Second, do you actually know what kind of car she was in?

Look at this: http://vimeo.com/3248455
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Horn


Lets end the story this way.....The only way to stop accidents from happening is to make sure you hit other people on purpose. Drive aggressive as hell and hit everything you see.
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