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Geo Metro Front End SMASHED in by speeding driver; CRASH DATA Support Needed SEE PICS
Topic Started: Sep 20 2010, 11:00 PM (8,469 Views)
Potter
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Col. Potter

horn12007
Sep 23 2010, 09:12 PM
Lets end the story this way.....The only way to stop accidents from happening is to make sure you hit other people on purpose. Drive aggressive as hell and hit everything you see.
That's derby laws.... stay away from the driver door tho...... that shit is beat up... I could shoot someone for Hitting me in the driver door

Edited for drunkeness :beer
Edited by Potter, Sep 23 2010, 09:54 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Actually, looking at evascar.weebly.com close and re-reading the account I'll offer this.

It's embarrassing for any police office that the traffic is backed up for blocks and they can't/won't prevent traffic from waiting in the turn lane. The center lane is for turning, not waiting in line. The traffic should actually be blocking the flow of traffic in the right lane.

1970 I was riding a bicycle from L.A. to San Francisco, camped on the beach and we crossed the center section - actually double yellow lines, and a cop pulled us over. "Do you know why we use solid yellow lines?" :dunno "Because we can't put up concrete barriers."

So IMHO, everyone parked (to go straight) in the center section is breaking the law UNLESS they intend to turn left BEFORE they reach the signal up the hill. Nobody should be blocking an intersection for safety reasons - emergency vehicles. Sorry to be redundant here, I do have a point...

I would subpena the VW lady's phone records for one. BUT, I suspect she was in line and got impatient and darted out of line from maybe 4 cars behind the black SUV. Can anyone see the full size truck in front of the red dump truck?
That gave her enough time to get up to maybe 30-35 mph or not and would explain why you did not see her coming from the left. She was not in the lane as far back as Kran's but was accelerating from where the white car is. She got frustrated and decided to pull out when you decided to cross in front of the black SUV.
If she was moving at 30 and you were moving at 5 that would account for the 35 mph collision.

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We have the same sort of problem in this town, it's called Summer. Locals hibernate and if you venture out at all you NEVER make a left turn, not that you could anyway. :lol Pre-plan any trip to avoid the main road. The "city" bought pedestrians florescent orange flags to wave to get drivers to stop. Now it's not only open season on tourists but they are better targets, they carry flags. :evillol
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Bad Bent...Thanks for the PM! Air Bag vidio was funny! Yes, isn't it absurd??? 40+ some cars ilegally lined up preventing safe exit for people coming from the side. I've never seen this before. When I went back to take additional pictures and make measurements the road was completely normal at 2pm. However, from 4pm to ? it is hazardous due to rush hour traffic. Even WORSE...is the merging of traffic AT THE LIGHT to the Right! People are converged in the CENTER of the intersection STUCK from ALL FOUR SIDES!!! I've been at that intersection coming from the opposite side of the light, at least 4 times in the past around rush hour traffic and remember that the intersection was a total joke and utter chaos! This has been going on for at least two decades.

@Johnny Mullet...Thanks for fixing my typeO name. Yes, I'm very relieved no one was hurt in this accident. I'm online researching the fire department records and there have been a ridiculous amount of accidents here.

@Cocho Blanco...Dude, I can't be any more clear than I was in my last two posts For the third time, it was a1989 VW Jetta.

http://www.neptuneeng.com/SAEPapers/950354.pdf
James A. Neptune, James E. Flynn, Phillip A. Chavez, and Howard W. Underwood from J2 Engineering, Inc. are all men with college education and degrees in engineering that wrote "Speed from Skids: A Modern Approach"

"An automobile equipped with a conventional brake system often will produce four skid marks on a roadway surface during maximum braking. This condition often occurs immediately prior to a collision in a traffic accident." The studies also went on to state that "Observations have been made indicating some vehicles equipped with ABS leave skid marks on the surface of the roadway during maximum braking."

http://www.easts.info/on-line/journal_06/3401.pdf
Again, college educated and professors wrote:
Journal of the Eastern Asia Society for Transportation Studies
Skidmark patterns and identification of ABS-equipped passenger cars

"Studies concerning whether the visible skid-marks existed or not from ABS car braking tests and how they were measured and identified/refined were reviewed. German researcher (Engels, 1983, 1984), using cars with the same ABS system, found marks is only about half of his conventional tests and commented that the appearance of the “dashes” dependent on how heavily the brakes were used. That is, if the pedal was used just enough to activate the antilock system, only the dashes were made. Nevertheless, heavier pressures on pedal produced a continuous and uniform mark. All these studies reported that the faint skid-mark sometimes could be seen much easily using a polarizing filter."
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Coche Blanco
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/JettaMkII.JPG




Also, I said 85% braking, not max aka 100%



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZF6feugYIo


that is all
Edited by Coche Blanco, Sep 23 2010, 11:22 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Based on "I pulled out safely from a stop sign. I saw no cars in the near/immediate distance to my left.
Wham! I got hit with TREMENDOUS :spaz force in my front end!"

I don't think she applied the brakes, she didn't have time. Look at the silver truck in the picture above. The red VW could have been looking around the left side of the traffic and seen an opening up ahead - the one created by the black SUV - and thought 'I'll jump out of line and race to that spot'

OR red VW could have just thought "To hell with this, I can't wait here any longer, damn people are making me late, I'm driving up the hill and turning right." Whatever, if she was focused on getting out of this box and going like hell up the hill or into any place she can fit her small car. Probably more concerned with cutting someone off as she merged (darted) back into the proper lane and getting ahead, her vision of you would have been blocked by the car ahead of her - which might have been the car behind the black SUV she was pulling around to pass - and then she hit you so she was never "in the near/immediate distance to my left."

IMHO, short of redoing the streets and intersections, the solution would be to put a concrete barrier with warning cones, water barrels or even a flashing light just before where the turn lane begins and goes up the hill to the light. This would force drivers to stay in the lane of traffic and not drive/park in the center lane. They would have to yield to drivers making turns like you did (should not block intersections) and you could slowly make your turn left while watching for traffic from the right.

Maybe:
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59RamblerWithFins
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BOO-BOO
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@Bad Bent Thanks so much for your ideas...I have no clue where she came from. Don't know if the dent is 35mph or up to 50mph. Do know she never braked. Your diagram is pretty accurate but I was just a little more inside the intersection. I remember thinking I HAD to have been hit by the door but couldn't figure out why the accident didn't feel like it. I just sat there thinking WTF. I thought it was strange that it FELT like I got hit head on and I saw the hood and I was propelled backwards not sideways. The door was intact too. So with that said, the only logical thing I can come up with is she tried to veer into the empty spot and then into me and she kept going straight. Tomorrow I will try to draw that.
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59RamblerWithFins
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The 1989 VW Jetta that hit me. NONE of the black smudge marks on her front bumper were from my car. Her back bumper had similar black smudges. According to police report this is a 1989 but someone just informed me it looks more like a 1999.
Edited by 59RamblerWithFins, Sep 24 2010, 12:20 PM.
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Coche Blanco
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A 1989 Jetta did not hit you.
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Woodie
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59RamblerWithFins
Sep 24 2010, 01:53 AM
BOO-BOO
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Doesn't look very bad to me, Eva, I'd get it fixed.

That's more like a 99 Jetta, 89's were quite square.

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nerys
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Grr

Who says ABS don't leave skid marks? Fooey. first your 85% remark is null and void as that requires experience which MOST PEOPLE simple do not have. when they need to stop its 110% on the pedal. Period.

what ABS usually does not do is leave long continuous skid marks. they usually chirp them. SKID stop Skid Stop as the ABS tries to keep the wheels from locking up but still adhere to the command for full stop.

So you would see a 1-3ft skid mark then nothing. the nothing is where the ABS system caught up and "released" the locked brakes to allow you to resume control.

I have to say as stupid as the VW driver was I am impressed she managed to avoid hitting anyone else in that maneuver.

Talk about aggressive driving. Got a funny one for you. I 4wheel a lot so I always keep straps in the jeep. I was waiting a good long while for a parking space (christmas shopping)

another car came along as the guy was backing up. I was waiting signals on. Of course the guy turns toward me to "clear" the spot so I have to wait while I am waiting the guy has to back up a second time and then pull away. WHY? the other guy was trying to force his way into the spot before he was even done clearing it. WHILE I AM WAITING FOR IT.

he takes the spot from me. I roll down the window and say that spot is mine buddy I was waiting for it. his reply is a F OFF. I say move your car or I am moving it for you. He sais go F Yourself.

I pull forward open the hatch and start hooking up my tow straps. he flips woh what are you doing. I very calmy stand up face him with strap in hands and say "Exactly what I said I was going to do I am going to hook this strap to your car drag it out of the spot you took from me and then park my car" (No I was not actually going to move his car I wanted to rattle him up a bit)

he freaks and says woh woh ok I will move. (surprised me as I was bluffing)

I hate jerks :-) bent is right I am guessing she was going to "run up" the now empty lane to try and cut in line or beat around the traffic and in her rush missed you.
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Coche Blanco
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I've avoided several wrecks with non-100% braking force, and the other driver never heard/saw my tires squeel. Skid marks are not an acceptable means of proof that you braked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpzxtswBQV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFx51ymP4g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVT9d7eVUP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfffXkoJvUU




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metro_fiend
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where Geos come to die

Coche Blanco
Sep 24 2010, 10:10 AM
I've avoided several wrecks with non-100% braking force, and the other driver never heard/saw my tires squeel. Skid marks are not an acceptable means of proof that you braked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpzxtswBQV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFx51ymP4g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVT9d7eVUP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfffXkoJvUU




Yeah i agree here, brake skid marks arent always gone to heavy braking ESPECIALLY if they have ABS. I rear ended a car once i had the brakes locked up solid, never left a mark.
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Woodie who wrote:"That's more like a 99 Jetta, 89's were quite square."...Ah! :smackface The police report has it as a 1989 which is what I was going by. Thanks for "explaining" the difference Woodie, that explains some of Cocho's confusion. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding! My research found that 1989 VW's mostly did not come with ABS brakes, only 1 out of 250. The 1999 Jettas I believe all came with ABS so she probably DID have ABS brakes.

@Nerys who wrote: "Fooey. first your 85% remark is null and void as that requires experience which MOST PEOPLE simply do not have. when they need to stop its 110% on the pedal. Period"...Yes, and my point was that she absolutely did not brake and was speeding. "Logically" anyone seeing a car infront of them that they are about to hit, they would stomp the brake down through the floor! Presenting results with brakes at 85% seemed a moot a point. Accident...immediate reaction...brake to floor! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Skid marks. Period.

OMG...ROFL...I LOVED the jeep/strap story! I love Christmas...and jerks! Not! Thanks for sharing the story...put a big smile on my face! " I say move your car or I am moving it for you." I am still LOL!

@Metrofiend who wrote: "Yeah i agree here, brake skid marks arent always gone to heavy braking ESPECIALLY if they have ABS. I rear ended a car once i had the brakes locked up solid, never left a mark."...After more research, I am going to have to concede to the fact that though I didn't see skid marks that there could have been "faint" skid marks that a "special" camera lens would be able to detect that would be hard to see or detect by the normal eye. SO, though I did not see skid marks they could have been there albeit, faintly. That is what college educated professors and engineers are documenting. Now, the question is..."Should I have heard her (35-50 mph) braking or not?"
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Coche Blanco
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59RamblerWithFins
Sep 24 2010, 11:57 AM
Now, the question is..."Should I have heard her (35-50 mph) braking or not?"
Was the road dry? Did she have good tires? Did she apply the brakes 100%?

You can brake, fast, without hearing tires or leaving a trace.
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59RamblerWithFins
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@Cocho Blanco...who wrote: "I've avoided several wrecks with non-100% braking force, and the other driver never heard/saw my tires squeel. Skid marks are not an acceptable means of proof that you braked"..This discussion is not about 85% braking or OTHER scenarios. I've very clearly outlined the details of the accident and am not interested in scenarios where you have CONTROL overy your vehicle as you are presenting in your situations. I have NEVER avoided a situation like the 1999? VW was in WITHOUT FULL FORCE braking AND squeeling! Now, I am not familiar with ABS brakes so can't say if squeeling would be involved though.

Couldn't understand why you kept asking about what year the VW car was. You never explained your confusion and came across a bit cocky. Woodie, made a statement that made me realize that the police report apparantly is inacurate as it says her vehicle was a 1999. I am not a VW afficianado so I had no clue why you were being so smart about your comments. A bit of explanation would have been helpful, young man.
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