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| The $350 1992 Metro rebuild; Testbed for MPG mods | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 18 2010, 01:38 AM (9,572 Views) | |
| Jim-Bob | Dec 3 2010, 01:24 PM Post #61 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Yeah, that and my perfectionistic tendency does tend to get me into a bit of trouble. Now I find my head full of ideas on how to maximize fuel economy and no real money to get it all done. I want to just do it right the first time but I also realize that I am several hundred dollars short of being able to do it safely. My big idea involves thermal barrier coatings on the head and piston crowns to reduce hot spots and detonation to allow me ( in theory at least) to run crap gas and high compression. I also wanted to use dry film lubricants on the piston skirts, rings and bearings to reduce wear and internal friction. Then there are the machining processes and parts to reduce internal weight without sacrificing strength. For that I wanted to knife edge the crank, and add lightweight forged pistons then have the whole reciprocating assembly balanced by a good machinist ( then again, the loose piston to wall clearance needed with forgings makes me wonder about how that would effect efficiency. Everything is a trade-off.). I also wanted to optimize the gearing and tire height for 50-55 mph so that the engine was at it's best BSFC at that speed as it is the average speed I use on main roads for work. I also considered running a stand alone ECU and a modified intake manifold to allow me to run SEFI instead of the stock TBI. I also considered water-alcohol injection that would be triggered by a knock sensor so that it would only activate when needed. As you can see, geekery quickly transitions into madness-especially when you only work 30 hours a week and can't really afford it!At any rate, I got up early today to go look at a 47k mile 3 banger Swift at a local junkyard to see if it had a good engine. Nope. it too was running on two cylinders! It sucks because if it ran I would have bought it then rebuilt the old engine using all of my theory as time and space permitted. Likewise I also wanted to have time to find a good manual trans and go through it with new bearings and dry film lubricants on all of the gears as well as cryo-treating. I still have to assemble my AMC Spirit project so I can sell it off and gain space ( I have WAY too many projects going) as I don't really have the room to build out the Metro as I wanted right now. So, I may build this one out initially by just getting a good engine and getting it running in stock condition then revisit it later as time, space and funds permit. Sorry for the wordiness, but I love to write about this sort of thing and so I tend to go off a bit about my present stream of consciousness. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 3 2010, 01:33 PM.
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| snowfish | Dec 3 2010, 04:29 PM Post #62 |
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Basic GearHead
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Wow! No More Coffee, after 10am, for you! Looking forward to your progress.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 3 2010, 05:06 PM Post #63 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Went junkyarding today and found nothing I could really use. When I got home I decided to pull the pan and have a look see. I saw a little trace of water in there, but no milky deposits. I figure it got there when I was pressure washing the engine as the ports had not sealed completely and some water had gotten in the cylinders. As for what I saw, everything looked just peachy down there. A little orange varnish, but not more than would be expected from a 116k mile engine in a 19 year old econo-box. The screen on the oil pump pickup is clean and free of debris, and the rod bearings seemed tight to the touch without excessive end play. The bottom of the pan was so clean you could see silver metal, but I think it was re-gasketed at one point as it had been held in with red silicone. All in all it's not bad. I find myself debating whether or not I should tear it down any further. I may just shop around for a rebuilt head, a gasket set and a set of reusable head bolts and call it a day. That way I can finish my other project to get the money to build up a different engine and a manual trans the way I want it for this car.![]() ![]() ![]() As you can see, it seems the engine probably saw reasonably good maintenance throughout most of it's life. The previous owner got the car in 2007 when it had already exceeded 100k miles (mileage exempt on the title) and proceeded to drive it no more than 16k miles since then. I think this owner did not take great care of the car but that the one before her did. This is why all that seems to be wrong are a burnt valve, a bad water pump and a transmission controller. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 4 2010, 03:01 AM.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 4 2010, 02:55 AM Post #64 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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10 AM? I don't usually even wake up before 2 PM!
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| Rooy | Dec 4 2010, 03:58 AM Post #65 |
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Putting a fresh head on a block with 116k could cause it to start burning oil. |
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 4 2010, 04:15 AM Post #66 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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I am still debating it as I would like to re-ring it, but I hate to do so only to have the new rings not seat due to some amount of bore distortion. Most of the surfaces of the bores still show the original crooshatching from the last time it was honed. Then again, it could have been run a while on 2 cylinders and fuel washed the bad cylinder causing harm. At this point I think I am going to go back to my machinist with the engine on Monday to ask his advice. I do want to shave .020-.030 off the head to bump the compression up a bit and hopefully add some low end torque. Then again, on old rings it may not be a great idea. I also plan to gasket match the ports on the head and manifolds as well as clean up the bowls a bit at home before I send the head out for the valve job and shave. I am just afraid that the cylinders for some reason may not clean up with a hone and then I am out even more money for new pistons. If that happens I will have to balance them to be sure they don't differ in weight too much. A three pot is already an inherently harmonically unstable engine I don't want to make it worse by throwing off it's internal balance. |
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| Woodie | Dec 4 2010, 06:50 AM Post #67 |
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Go ahead and do all of that. It will cost you thousands and gain about 5 mpg. Or, put in a junkyard manual transmission and gain 10 mpg. That red RTV on the oil pan is the way they came from the factory. If there's a gasket, somebody put it on there after the fact. Do not even consider putting it back together without new rings. If you can see crosshatch on the walls, you should be able to tell how even the wear is by the pattern of the crosshatch that is left. The sleeves can be measured to tell exactly how round they are, but this is usually not a problem. Just hit it with a light hone and new rings. If the crosshatching looks even in all the way around all three cylinders, just do rings. |
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 4 2010, 11:34 AM Post #68 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Are you sure they used red? Every Japanese engine I have ever torn into has always had silver RTV. As for the cylinders, there are spots that are missing the crosshatch that are maybe half a centimeter wide. I am thinking that I will take it to the machine shop next week and get an opinion. Plus, if he has the torque plate for this thing I will probably pay him to hone it instead of doing it with a drill. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 4 2010, 11:37 AM.
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| JimR | Dec 5 2010, 12:30 PM Post #69 |
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Jim, your not too far away. I'll keep an eye out for cars like yours in the yards when I go searching. I usually only go to Pick n Pull off 50th and causeway, and then one in St. Pete/Clearwater off of Ulmerton and 40th(or was it 44th?)
Edited by JimR, Dec 5 2010, 12:47 PM.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 6 2010, 12:54 AM Post #70 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Thanks! I am primarily looking for 5 speed stuff from a 89-94 car right now, but I appreciate any help I can get. I went to the Tampa LKQ today after I did the international new car show in Tampa. The only Metro/Swift I saw was a 1995+ 4 door 1.3/auto in lime green. It's in the GM section, not with the imports. As for Clearwater, there's a red 1990 Metro 3/auto, a blue 1992 Metro 3/auto and a few 95+ cars in both body styles (all in the import section). All of them were automatics with the 1.3. Around the corner from LKQ is Big 3 U pull it and they have 1 red 4 door 1.3/auto. The last U pull it on 118th is a new one and it has a purple Metro LSI 2 door 1.3/auto. I only know of one 3/5 and that is at Teddy bear's auto salvage in Holiday off of Swordfish ( IIRC). It's a 95+, has 47k on the clock and has dropped a cylinder. I didn't want that trans though as it has the 4.33 gear and is the least optimal for what I want to build. Plus, little else would be usable for the conversion as not much swaps over in terms of axles, shifter, etc. to an 89-94. There is one more Metro I know of in a junkyard in Tarpon Springs off Anclote BLVD. It's a 4 door 3/auto 92-94 with the engine intact but showing signs of a blown head gasket. I didn't take anything off of it as it was pretty well trashed. The junkyard looked less like Copher's and more like something off of Junkyard Wars-disorganized, scary piles of scrap. I will be going down to the Kenneth City LKQ tomorrow as I need an alternator bracket for my Frontier and it's the only U Pull it yard I haven't checked in the last two weeks. I'm also planning a trip to Clearwater Cylinder head to see if they have a head on the shelf for my car. If they do and it isn't too expensive I may end up buying it and then re-ringing the engine to hopefully get the car running before the end of the week. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 6 2010, 12:56 AM.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 7 2010, 12:20 AM Post #71 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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I finally bought something for the Geo today at the junkyard- a hood prop rod off a 95 Sedan. So, if you ever go to Big 3 Pull and Save in Clearwater and wonder where the hood prop went on the red 4 door, wonder no more. Other than that I came up empty handed. I could have bought the swaybars today but decided that they were plentiful enough to wait until the engine is finished. As for other Metros, there were several at the LKQ in Clearwater and one purple 3 door in the Domestic section of the LKQ in Kenneth City FL. None of them really had anything I really needed to put the car on the road so I didn't get anything off of them. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 7 2010, 12:25 AM.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 10 2010, 03:53 PM Post #72 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Today I painted a few pieces gloss black as the paint was peeling off of them. After that I cleaned out the EGR passages and checked the coolant passages in the throttle body as well as checking the EGR valve with a hand held vacuum pump. The EGR checked out so I cleaned as best I could and will reinstall it when I get my engine gasket set. I am also finally packaging up the head to ship to 3 Tech today or tomorrow. The delay has been because of issues at work and my own insecurity over my income level. As usual, I will post more pictures tonight when I get off work around 1AM. |
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| JimR | Dec 11 2010, 01:10 AM Post #73 |
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What Pizza joint do you work from in NPR?? I have friends in the area from my F-Body(Firebird/Camaro) group that I meet up with now and then. Would be cool to meet up briefly and give you business. |
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 11 2010, 02:20 AM Post #74 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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I'd rather not say exactly where I work because I did post some negative things about my employer elsewhere on here. I like my plausible denyability. That's why I write under a pen name that has nothing to do with my real name. However, if you ever do want to do a meet up somewhere I am game. I don't have my Metro driving just yet nor can I drive my Cutlass because I had to cancel it's insurance so it probably wouldn't be too much fun. I do have my pickup to drive though so if you ever want to meet up and go junkyarding I'm game. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 11 2010, 02:21 AM.
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| Jim-Bob | Dec 11 2010, 04:09 PM Post #75 |
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Junkyard Engineer
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Here are yesterday's pictures. I also managed to package up the head for shipping and will see if UPS is still open when I get there. If not, I guess it will be shipped tomorrow. ![]() Lawnmowers come in handy when working on a Metro! They make handy engine carts and you can even use them to paint parts on. ![]() ![]() Yes.... I know... I'm boring. I am painting the black parts with peeling paint and rust black after a trip to the wire wheel so that the car looks like a resto under the hood. ![]() I think I damaged the fishmouth on the water pump end of the coolant transfer tube where it goes into the block. I just hope it still seals with the O-ring. I'll do my initial fill with plain water though so that if it leaks it won't mess things up. Don't worry! I don't plan on running straight water. I will change it out to a water/antifreeze mix after I am sure there are no leaks. ![]() ![]() Here I am testing the EGR valve with a vacuum pump. It's not a tool you use every day but it does come in handy when bleeding brakes or checking things like this. I think it was $30 at Harbor Freight. At any rate, as you can see it held vacuum quite well and it did move the valve open. Thus, I can conclude that it works just fine. Not pictured is me checking the throttle body coolant passages. I pulled the CTS and ran water from the hose through it. It flowed freely so I can surmise that it isn't clogged. Edited by Jim-Bob, Dec 11 2010, 04:10 PM.
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Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


I have a near photographic memory too......just take two weeks to get the picture back!
I want to just do it right the first time but I also realize that I am several hundred dollars short of being able to do it safely. My big idea involves thermal barrier coatings on the head and piston crowns to reduce hot spots and detonation to allow me ( in theory at least) to run crap gas and high compression. I also wanted to use dry film lubricants on the piston skirts, rings and bearings to reduce wear and internal friction. Then there are the machining processes and parts to reduce internal weight without sacrificing strength. For that I wanted to knife edge the crank, and add lightweight forged pistons then have the whole reciprocating assembly balanced by a good machinist ( then again, the loose piston to wall clearance needed with forgings makes me wonder about how that would effect efficiency. Everything is a trade-off.). I also wanted to optimize the gearing and tire height for 50-55 mph so that the engine was at it's best BSFC at that speed as it is the average speed I use on main roads for work. I also considered running a stand alone ECU and a modified intake manifold to allow me to run SEFI instead of the stock TBI. I also considered water-alcohol injection that would be triggered by a knock sensor so that it would only activate when needed. As you can see, geekery quickly transitions into madness-especially when you only work 30 hours a week and can't really afford it!




No More Coffee, after 10am, for you! 




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7:10 PM Jul 10