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| Metro won't warm up, poor heat.; Bad MPG as well | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 3 2010, 12:19 AM (6,365 Views) | |
| KY Metro | Dec 3 2010, 07:38 PM Post #16 |
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Member
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+1 on the heater. I just got mine installed (1000W), and have been testing the effects. Two days ago I had the car out early & cold, took almost 7 miles to warm up. Until then the MPGuino read about 45mpg avg - this is at 35MPH in 5th gear. Same speed warmed up I get 65mpg! |
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| undgsx-R | Dec 3 2010, 09:21 PM Post #17 |
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Self Certified Garage Mechanic
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I already have a block heater. I think that covering the rad is just a band aid. I am going to get my rad flushed at work tomorrow and reinstall the thermostat. I will report back after the flush and thermostat reinstall. I do plan on blocking the rad too, but I want to get a little heat out of it first. |
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| Bad Bent | Dec 3 2010, 10:32 PM Post #18 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Well that sounds like a plan, make sure all the passages are clear through the TB and heater core. Yeah, again. If it is 5oF out and you are driving 30 mph the the wind chill on the radiator is -19oF and for every 5 mph faster you go it gets about 2oF colder. Typically water molecules stopped moving 51 degrees ago. That is not good and blocking the radiator would be a good idea. In fact blocking the whole front grill would be a good idea, IMHO.
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| Potter | Dec 3 2010, 11:22 PM Post #19 |
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Col. Potter
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well it is winter, its gonna take longer for the engine to warm up... i usualy run the car while i scrape the frost off of all the windows, then run it out to the end of my road to rt 60 then run it sissy footed till the interstate (bout 25 min then no more than 3 grand on the tach i usualy shift at the first time the green arrow lights up.) then once i hit the acceleration ramp its till i hit 5th then level out at about 75 mph (almost 4 grand) and hold it their for a coupple miles and then it will finaly be up to normal temp by time i switch interstates where as in the summer months the car would be up to operateing temp by time i hit the acceleration ramp to the first interstate. bb that helps out with driveing to see what the wind chill against my rad/ engine would be... im compairing it to the few morinins weve had here in S/W VA and thats pretty damn
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| Bad Bent | Dec 4 2010, 12:07 AM Post #20 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Yeah, Potter, it's always a fun chart to refer to around this time of year and realize what's at stake here .I have been riding my tricycle to work in 25-30 degree weather at 10 mph or 15-21 deg. wind chill. It's only a little over a mile to work but I don't get warmed up before 10 miles.
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| slander | Dec 4 2010, 12:11 AM Post #21 |
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Tech Certified
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Far too long. Should heat up much faster than that. Your thermostat is probably bad. To the original poster, try flushing your coolant lines, especially the heater core. Trap the flush water in a bucket, and see if you flushed a bunch of crap out of the heater core and the lines. Could be a plugged up core. |
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| JohnyP | Dec 4 2010, 12:19 AM Post #22 |
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to burp your radiator after you have flushed it or changed the fluid. With a cold car that hasn't been stated for the day take off the radiator cap and start the car and let run at idle in natural until the temp gauge reads normal. If there was any air in a line it will belch out along with some fluid. Put the cap back on make use the res. tank is full and take for a test drive |
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| undgsx-R | Dec 4 2010, 12:35 AM Post #23 |
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Self Certified Garage Mechanic
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Bb, windchill does not affect your car. Windchill is the measure of how cold it feels on your skin. 10 deg to the car is 10 deg to the car no matter how fast you are traveling |
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| poorman1 | Dec 4 2010, 08:00 AM Post #24 |
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this seems to be normal all my metros did this when the temps fell that low wait till it 20 or 30 below what seems to be happening is the heater is more than sufficient to cool the engine at idle, and the t-stat never opens when you start driving and the t-stat finally starts to open the coolant coming in is 5 degrees or whatever the outside temp is and your engine temp drops like a stone before the t-stat can close the radiator, the hoses and the tube on the back of the motor hold more coolant then the motor and heater combined mine takes about 4 miles to warm up Edited by poorman1, Dec 4 2010, 08:04 AM.
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| Bad Bent | Dec 4 2010, 12:07 PM Post #25 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Yes, undgsx-R, you are correct. Living creatures feel "wind chill" as the effect the wind has in lowering the feeling of the temperature relative to ambient. I did not mean to imply any anthropomorphizing, that our cars would "feel" colder than the 5o temp. outside. However, at start up the entire engine may be at 5o. The metal parts have contracted and the water has expanded, unless there is a ~50/50 anti-freeze mix. The thermostat remains cold and circulates water and coolant inside the engine and heater core until the temperature is reached for it to open and circulate cooler coolant to prevent over heating. As poorman1 points out, when the 'mechanical' thermostat opens up it will dump the ~5o coolant from the radiator to prevent over heating. That is at start-up and the coolant temp sensor (CTS) in the TB is reading 5o and running the engine in a rich condition. While your car is stationary the engine heats up in the closed loop mode until the CTS senses it is in warmed up and it leans out the fuel mixture. We want to get to optimum operating temp ASAP for better FE. So why block off the radiator or bumper grill? I incorrectly used the term 'wind chill' to describe 'heat transfer by convection' and more specificity Forced Convection. When parked your block, oil pan and radiator will begin to radiate heat. The block more quickly, but let's assume there is no molecular movement around the car. There will be a boundary layer (laminar flow) of heat formed around the engine. But when the car is moving the boundary layer will be diminished by Forced Convection. Maybe not so much the heat generating engine but the radiator is detached from it's heat source and designed to cool liquids. Your car already does this on a small scale with it's radiator and fan where heat radiates and the fan cools the radiator. IMHO, driving the car at 35-50 mph in 5o weather only amplifies the effect of chilling the radiator, using colder air with more volume ie Forced Convection.
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| undgsx-R | Dec 4 2010, 08:00 PM Post #26 |
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Self Certified Garage Mechanic
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Today I noticed, I let the car warm up before to operating temp before I left work. Then when I left and turned on the heat, as I started driving the temp gauge dropped quickly to the dash above the "c". I am going to block off the radiator tomorrow morning before I go to work. Is this causing my poor mpg as well. My last tank was 28.78 mpg. All highway at about 55-60 mph |
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| nerys | Dec 4 2010, 10:26 PM Post #27 |
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Grr
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Sitting idle and DRIVING are critical. Sitting idle my car could take 15-20 minutes to heat up but if I just "get in and drive" in 3-5 (2-3 miles tops) minutes its at full operating temps and I am getting heat. now that does not mean "I" am warm. takes about 10-12 minutes to remove the "chill" from the cabin :-) In the winter I have a small "heater" I put in the car (will go on my "deck" this year) to heat the car up first and remove the chill. (110v) I hope to add one of those katz heaters to this combo this year :-) your 28mpg is confusing me. is your commute very short? I have NEVER seen much of an MPG difference due to temperature. in fact the metro is the first car where its more than "statistical noise" (around 1.5mpg) most of my difference comes from the winter blend for example I can even tell you within a few days when we switched to winter blend. 54mph on 9/26 48mpg on 10/1 so SOMEWHERE in that window we switched to winter blend around here. temps were still hitting 80+ so it was certaintly not winter chill doing it :-) now with temps hovering around freezing I am still getting 49-50mpg (cleaned out the EGR) Edited by nerys, Dec 4 2010, 10:36 PM.
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| undgsx-R | Dec 5 2010, 12:10 AM Post #28 |
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Self Certified Garage Mechanic
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Well I drive about 5 miles, and the car is not even warmed up on the temp gauge, maybe half at best. I was getting great mileage in the summer, as soon as it started getting cold., it started dropping like a rock. But also when I start my car it idles at 2200 for a while too, I don't think it it is supposed to do this. |
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| nerys | Dec 5 2010, 12:12 AM Post #29 |
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Grr
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mine does that too (high idle) when its cold. thats normal as far as I know. I would check out the entire cooling system for blockage. is there a way to "test" the thermostat. I will try to remember to actually "time" the car tomorrow for heat up. I am pretty sure its under 5 minutes to full operating temps. |
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| undgsx-R | Dec 5 2010, 12:23 AM Post #30 |
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Self Certified Garage Mechanic
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Not mine, its more along the line of 15-20 mins. |
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till i hit 5th then level out at about 75 mph (almost 4 grand) and hold it their for a coupple miles and then it will finaly be up to normal temp by time i switch interstates where as in the summer months the car would be up to operateing temp by time i hit the acceleration ramp to the first interstate.
bb that helps out with driveing to see what the wind chill against my rad/ engine would be... im compairing it to the few morinins weve had here in S/W VA and thats pretty damn
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7:54 PM Jul 10