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| Need Help FAST - Supposed to leave tomorrow; losing power, stalling out | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 30 2010, 10:03 PM (2,245 Views) | |
| ktngrandma | Dec 30 2010, 10:03 PM Post #1 |
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I was going to post last night after getting everything back together from taking things apart to clean out all the EGR passageways & changing oil. THINK I got all the passageways cleaned out with drill & cable roto rooter technique - got both suction and blow afterwards at EGR valve while it was off, before putting back on. Sounded So much better and was so excited. Took the exhaust manifold off (with new gasket when putting back on) but not the intake manifold. LOTS of carbon and blockage in the 90 degree area just below the TBI. Sprayed the heck out of it with carb cleaner as I was roto rootering and eventually felt it free up. Lots of black liquid coming back down intake passageway of EGR. Drove about 1/2 hour this afternoon and was working well/normal, no unusual sounds or anything. But.... on my way back and just before getting back to son/DIL's place it started losing power and stalling out. Pulled into parking lot to get out of traffic, babied it a little, kept giving it gas until it would seem to clear itself and run fine again for a little while. Then would stall again a bit down the road and would repeat. 3rd time, started hearing a definite new, unusual "knock" or rattle under the engine. Can't pinpoint exactly but Seems like it's at the wide part of the exhaust system right after the vertical pipe does the 90 degree turn from the engine and the wide horizontal part of the exhaust system. Right under the oil filter. The CAT converter is further back near back tires and the round piece of the exhaust back there isn't it?? Was going to Seafoam down the TBI once I cleaned out the majority of the carbon build up. Wondering if that would help or hinder with this situation. ???? Lots of white smoke out the exhaust pipe, doesn't smell like rotten eggs. When I took air filter off, seemed to be 'smoking' out the TBI for a short while as if it was awfully hot, but then decipitated and went away. Stalling, losing power happened on a shorter interval after the initial stall/loss of power. Barely made it through one traffic light after the 3rd pull over and ended up stalling completely and blocking traffic during rush hour until someone helped me push it into a parking lot to get out of traffic. 1 block from home but 1 major intersection too many to push my luck. Am going back to limp it home as soon as I'm doe posting here to hopefully get some quick help, in case it's something simple. I was going to drive up to Bellingham, WA (from Ft. Lewis, south of Tacoma - about 120 miles away) to catch the Alaska State Ferry back home and back to work on another ferry on Tues. Kind of scared to be testing my luck in the middle of the night and getting stranded but would really like to take my car home with me. If not, I'll have to leave it down here and come back to figure it out and take it back home when I get a week off in 2 - 3 weeks. Hoping it's something simple I can fix quickly with very little testing skills, knowledge or tools to test with. Tried to check and recheck all the connections, hoses etc. that I had apart yesterday to see if maybe I didn't connect something back up right, but then why would it have worked for a good 1/2 hour or more??? Plenty of fuel in the tank, oil level good, filter is on good and tight with 5 or 10/30 synthetic Amsoil. AllMountain helped me put in a new clutch, calipers, tie rod a couple weeks ago. Any ideas of what I can check with limited tools, skill or knowledge??? Will check back after limping car home to where I can have better light, tools and a floor jack avail., now that rush hour is over. Thanks for any help you can send my way!!! KtnGrandma
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| mgzimm08 | Dec 30 2010, 10:50 PM Post #2 |
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This almost sounds like a head gasket to me, do you have any way to run a compression test? What does the white smoke smell like? Hopefuly not like coolant... |
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| ktngrandma | Dec 30 2010, 11:14 PM Post #3 |
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Not much smell to the exhaust, but wasn't really paying close attention either. Have to go back and limp it the rest of the way home in a little while and will pay close attention to that then. Just got back from trying to limp it home. Guess I was about 2 blocks away as I got it to go for a block, then completely stalled and died on me again. For that 1 block was starting to think it was temp related as each time I let it sit for a little while, would start up and go strong, but will only go a block at a time now. Starting to think it might be a fuel problem/fuel filter????? as it won't even really start now once it stalled out. Sounds like it's starving for or not getting any fuel. Will take a little gas with me next jaunt out to limp it home and put some down the TBI and see if that helps. No CEL light anymore (had been getting constant 51 -EGR, but that seems to be cleared now. Didn't hear the knocking/rattling (different then the one I heard when I first got it - which ended up being the throw out bearing on the clutch) that I had heard earlier after driving for 1/2 hr or more. So again makes me wonder if it could be temp related for it to start after going awhile. But again, seems more like a fuel problem now. Any other ideas or things I can check easily?????? |
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| Potter | Dec 30 2010, 11:20 PM Post #4 |
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Col. Potter
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coupple things come to mind for my mistakes 1. check your coolant level... if its a bad blow in the head gasket you will be eating coolant alive. and it will missfire, loose tons of power and blow smoke everywhere... but usually you will see your temp gauge go wayyy hot. 2. if its a smaller hole in the head gasket in the right place- start the car up with the radiator cap off and watch for bubbles in the coolant 3. take the PCV hose (the one that goes to the air filter and disconnect it and watch it to see if it smokes or spits oil. 4. also it wouldnt hurt to check the oil if you over fill it it can cause symptoms like this... ask me what happens when you put 5 quarts of oil in a metro ... boy was i stupid back then.also with the oil... pull the dipstick if the oil looks like Chocolate milk you got yourself a blown head gasket and on some occasions a cracked head. 5. if you can loan out a compression tester from an auto parts store if they can do it. and do a compression test... Click Here EDIT... more info came to mind Edited by Potter, Dec 30 2010, 11:25 PM.
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| Jittney | Dec 30 2010, 11:25 PM Post #5 |
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Anchorage 92 XFi
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1. Excess carbon build up that was cleaned out fell down the exhaust manifold causing the sound/smoke in there? 2. If it's the head gasket, the oil would go cloudy, and there would be oil in the coolant. 3. Stuck thermostat not opening up and allowing the block to cool properly? You can run without a thermostat in there if you have to. You will get less heat out of the heater, though. 4. If it's lack of fuel, listen for the fuel pump kicking in when you try to start the car...should hear it whirrrrr. 5. Take the fuel feed line off the TB (it's the larger one) and see if fuel comes out when you turn the key to on position. It's better to have a helper if you're doing that one. Edit: looks like we're thinking along the same lines. Nice to see the team pitch in on this one. Edited by Jittney, Dec 30 2010, 11:27 PM.
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| StevieC | Dec 30 2010, 11:29 PM Post #6 |
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Given your recent cleaning of everything, MAYBE the catalytic converter is now plugged. Unscrew the O2 sensor from the exhaust manifold and see if that helps some. |
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| Bad Bent | Dec 30 2010, 11:32 PM Post #7 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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SSince the last thing you did was the EGR passages I suspect a clogged catalytic converter. Disconnect the exhaust at the manifold, the two bolts with springs and see if it runs better. LOUD but it may run better. A few blocks should tell. |
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| Bad Bent | Dec 30 2010, 11:48 PM Post #8 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Potter's post reminded me...If you removed and or worked on the intake manifold... check the ground wire on the back of it, above the alternator.
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| StevieC | Dec 30 2010, 11:58 PM Post #9 |
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There's two on that manifold, right? (I think I read somewhere?) |
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| ktngrandma | Dec 31 2010, 12:07 AM Post #10 |
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Thanks for all the ideas everyone!!! I was thinking catalytic converter too since I've read on here how the carbon cam fall down and clog it up and the knock/rattle of the exhaust system seems to indicate that. But would a clogged cat act like it's starving for fuel, like it is now?? If I "Disconnect the exhaust at the manifold, the two bolts with springs", will it put excess stress on the exhaust system and drag at all, or will it be safe to drive? (for a few blocks to test I guess???) Don't THINK it's the head as the oil is nice, new and still clear - no cloudiness or water in it and no oil in the coolant and temp gauge is not getting hot (of course haven't been able to go far enough to really do so either!! but didn't think it was hot when it started losing power and stalling on me) Will check coolant level more carefully on my next limp it home jaunt in a few minutes. (making a list to make sure I check all your suggestions!! Those I can easily do in the dark and COLD and snow at least!! Getting so late, think I'll probably end up hopefully limping it the next block home and leave it at son's/DIL's until I'm off again in 3 weeks and continue diagnosing and trying to fix it then) Left the oil mid way between add/full lines on purpose to avoid overfilling and holding steady at same place now. When I was trying to get the PCV off (stripped screws, vice grips didn't work and no heat source to use as someone suggested so haven't tried that yet) and had the hose off of it, noticed it was oozing a darkish oil like substance, more then usual or more then it has the other times I've been working on it. What would that indicate??? Off to limp it back home again. Will return and report shortly. Thanks again for all your input everyone!! Unfortunately, looking like I'll have to leave my little Geo behind as I'm running out of time to fix it before having to jump on the ferry to go back to work. (Being standby status only as a crew member, would have to be in Bellingham by 4 am to get in the front of the line to get the #1 or #2 standby pass to have any chance of getting on. Always a full ferry from B'ham!!)
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| StevieC | Dec 31 2010, 12:19 AM Post #11 |
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Yes it could definitely cause those symptoms. You give it more fuel so for a second it has a little more power, but then you just get more pressure in the exhaust manifold and it dies back down... You should be able to loosen those bolts enough to allow the pressure to escape, or remove the oxygen sensor. Both will make a noticeable difference if the cat is indeed clogged! Seems likely at this point given the work you've been doing... |
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| Bad Bent | Dec 31 2010, 12:24 AM Post #12 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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I use the term constipated for a clogged Catalytic Converter (Cat). BTW, the Cat. is the first cylinder after the engine, then you may have a cigar type resonator under the rear seat area and then the muffler. If the Cat. is clogged it will cause the engine to hesitate and stall. Well, the only way to eliminate the Cat. (edit: as the problem) is to replace it, Pull it and inspect it or run your engine for a block or two without it. I suggest the cheap test, unless someone disagrees with a good reason. If the PCV valve is blocked there will be oil in the air cleaner. If the tube clogs you will blow out the cam seal and oil will spray all over the engine bay passenger side. Edited by Bad Bent, Dec 31 2010, 12:26 AM.
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| ktngrandma | Dec 31 2010, 12:28 AM Post #13 |
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So loosening or disconnecting the exhaust manifold with the spring bolts on downward vertical part of exhaust manifold should relieve pressure to see if it makes a difference? Should I disconnect completely or just loosen a bit, or a lot but still keep connected?? If that will help narrow down prob and ck for cat converter problem I'll do that. (if nothing else just to get it the rest of way home) |
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| ktngrandma | Dec 31 2010, 12:31 AM Post #14 |
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I got resonator and cat mixed up. Since it's the one just behind engine, pretty sure it's the cat as that is where the evident knocking/rattling was coming from earlier today. |
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| obaja | Dec 31 2010, 12:31 AM Post #15 |
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Diesel Power
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Ya, just loosen it and see how it runs. You will have to watch the bolts to make sure they dont fall out. I would just bring a piece of wire with you or cable or something to tie up the exhaust manifold with and unbolt the whole thing. Use lots of penetrating oil on those bolts before braking them loose. |
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until someone helped me push it into a parking lot to get out of traffic. 1 block from home but 1 major intersection too many to push my luck. Am going back to limp it home as soon as I'm doe posting here to hopefully get some quick help, in case it's something simple. I was going to drive up to Bellingham, WA (from Ft. Lewis, south of Tacoma - about 120 miles away) to catch the Alaska State Ferry back home and back to work on another ferry on Tues. Kind of scared to be testing my luck in the middle of the night and getting stranded but would really like to take my car home with me. If not, I'll have to leave it down here and come back to figure it out and take it back home when I get a week off in 2 - 3 weeks.




... boy was i stupid back then.
S
(Being standby status only as a crew member, would have to be in Bellingham by 4 am to get in the front of the line to get the #1 or #2 standby pass to have any chance of getting on. Always a full ferry from B'ham!!)
3:18 AM Jul 11