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Metro saftey.
Topic Started: Jan 6 2011, 12:19 AM (1,086 Views)
HavsCritiria
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I know that the underbody brace provides increased rigidity for our little cars, great for performance. But Do you all think there may be a slight safety benefit from the increased stiffness? Just a thought that's been running through my head, plus I'm bored and I want to talk about cars. and while were here what about strut braces, in regards to safety, are they any improvement?
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

yes
I understand
I don't know
Does that answer your questions?

Really, safety is a serious thing and this is worth discussing. :)
Edited by Jittney, Jan 6 2011, 12:24 AM.
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allmountain40
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I doubt that they would enhance safety from the standpoint that they have nothing to do with the passenger compartment and only add to lateral stiffness wich does not aid in head on or rear end colissions. However, they can help protect the suspension of the car from side impacts to some degree.
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HavsCritiria
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IF you guys reading don't mind, I'd like to brainstorm relatively cheap ideas to increase cabin rigidity. Just to use our brains. I'm thinking small steel bars on the roof, these roofs feel like they're made of tin foil. (I'm being very general with my idea)
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allmountain40
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Get a universal floor brace to help with side impacts. The roof support is pretty stout. My stepson rolled my first geo at 70mph. It went end over end then sideways. It landed wheels up, and i drove it home. I had to replace the hatch, and the passenger door and a couple windows. I also had to push the back of the roof where the hatch attaches back up, but that was it. I drove it another 4 years. Him and his friend were in the car and only got bumps and bruises. The doors stayed shut, and even the smashed hatch stayed shut. I would say the rear part of the roof, over back seat is what needs the extra cage, and maybe some reinforcement in the doors themselves from side impacts.
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Jim-Bob
Junkyard Engineer

I think that, if anything, it could make it worse. Here's my reasoning: The car is supposed to use the area in front of the firewall to absorb the impact. By stiffening it, you would transfer more energy to the cabin structure because it would not absorb it. as for ways to make them safer, that generally falls to the safety structure surrounding the doors. This includes the roof. Roof structures of cars of this era are notoriously weak and will buckle upwards thus allowing the A pillar and dash to be shoved rearwards. However, this stiffness must be carried through to the rocker panels and door hinge area as well since any energy not used in bending the roof will now be used to bend other parts of the car. It's a tough balancing act then and really must be engineered into the car when it is built to be cost effective. Now, I could design a method of making these cars substantially safer, but you wouldn't like the price as it would cost thousands of dollars to do properly without intruding excessively on the interior space. It would also add a few hundred pounds of weight. Thus, we would end up compromising the Metro's ultimate purpose: Fuel economy. There are other issues that would have to be contended with also. Namely, the car sits VERY low to the ground with respect to other vehicles bumpers. This causes an interface issue where if you hit the vehicle in front of you, the hood now becomes the bumper. Thus, the lower, main frame rail is no longer absorbing the impact and the hood and far weaker upper frame rail has to take the full brunt of the impact. This, as you can imagine, would be devastating to a car with the Metro's lack of structural metal. It would not hit a hard point until it got to the strut tower ( I know because I checked the design) and likely would have too much energy left to stop the other car from pushing the dash into your face.

So.... how do you make a Metro safe? Simple: Don't hit anything or get hit by anything else at any substantial speed. Otherwise, you're screwed. BTW, other vehicles TERRIFY me when I drive the Metro. Looking up at another vehicle's bumper scares the crap out of me.
Edited by Jim-Bob, Jan 6 2011, 02:39 AM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

For stiffness, I have added an upper strut tower bar, foamed the door frame, around the side windows and hatch. To sacrifice rear passenger leg comfort, I added a frame brace. :evillol

I would add a lower strut bar and anti-sway bar if I did not have the header, because I want better handling and steering response so I can avoid accidents. A good example is the on-coming truck that was a foot in my lane this morning, in a turn. :banghead I would want the Geo to respond quickly so I could move over.
Edited by Bad Bent, Jan 6 2011, 10:20 PM.
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Potter
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Col. Potter

Jim-Bob
Jan 6 2011, 02:36 AM
So.... how do you make a Metro safe? Simple: Don't hit anything or get hit by anything else at any substantial speed. Otherwise, you're screwed. BTW, other vehicles TERRIFY me when I drive the Metro. Looking up at another vehicle's bumper scares the crap out of me.
NAH... my 94 has been ass ended, ran into the guard rail, and hit 2 deer.

no injurys. im scared of NO ONE on the road... most of my tailgaters back off when i break check them

And if some idiot wants to get road rage on me i just pull out my hog leg and flash it... they usually back off.

3 things ive figured out working in a body shop and just from life

Driving is Driving... if you pay attention and drive you wont get hit or hit anyone... and if you have some sense about ya you wont wreck it in bad weather.

if you hit a TREE (not a sapling a frickin fully matured oak) @ 60-70 mph i dont care what your driving your gonna get screwed up.

Every wreck is different... ive seen some wrecks where they shouldn't have been alive... and some that the conditions where just right that they died and should have lived

i even had a friend die in an accident that he shouldn't have... they hit a deer at 45 mph, it was bad enough to make the airbag blow, the air bag shot out in his face and broke his neck... this was in a Volvo... supposedly one of the safest cars out their.... :shit happens when your card is drawn, your time is up.. it dont matter.

some say that the Geo is a beer can... ok... then why is it that most of your 4cyl derbys the metro is like the New yorker of them... i swear the car is indestructible.

as for your answer about all the braces... no the only kind of bracing that would save your butt in a high speed crash is a full roll cage. but all the bracing will help you avoid idiots on the road.
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BillHoo
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I found this simulator package where someone had done a Geo Metro impact to a solid wall. Not looking too good:
http://reference.findtarget.com/search/LS-DYNA/

But I did not buy the car for it's reknowned safety.
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

Roll cage or broke.

I'm with BB on improving handling to avoid accidents if ever possible.
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fmfdoc
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Elite Member
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Accident avoidance? That is allstates stand. lol I know it was as corny as kansas but I couldn't help myself. I do however agree with the suspension mods and the above mentioned avoiding accidents.
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