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| Katz Heater Plumbing | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 11 2011, 11:18 AM (2,812 Views) | |
| c140flyer | Jan 11 2011, 11:18 AM Post #1 |
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Hi Folks, I know,I know, there's been alot of discussion on the installation and use of this heater, but I still have questions I can't answer. I recently purchased a 850 watt Katz circulating heater for my Metro. I read in several posts that the heater was added in-line to the inlet hose going to the heater core. This seems like the easiest way to hook it up, but I've seen other posts where it was tee'd off to other connections. The kit comes with a "Y" connector and some instructions that are as clear as mud. I'd like to just add it inline seeing how the hoses are both 5/8", but if there's a better way, I'm all for it. Could someone make a block diagram that shows the other method? I've seen a few pics, and they aren't making sense to me. Maybe I'm just thick- headed , but I'm a little confused. Any takers?Thanks, Larry |
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| Bad Bent | Jan 11 2011, 06:10 PM Post #2 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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I don't think there is a better way than connecting to the heater core hoses. I used the "T" to get cold coolant from the right hose and return it to the TB inlet hose with the "Y" connector. You can see a little of the "Y" connector in this picture.
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| c140flyer | Jan 11 2011, 06:31 PM Post #3 |
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Thanks BB, I'll probably go with the inline to heater core idea. Thanks, Larry |
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| Bad Bent | Jan 11 2011, 07:50 PM Post #4 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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My pleasure. Oh, looking at the pic I should add that the flow of the blue line is to the south (bottom of pic, LF fender) and goes into the bottom of my Kats. The flow of the red line is to the top, the TB and hot coolant is pushed into the TB. More of less. This way the TB is the first to get hot coolant. Mind you that the Kats should NOT be on when you start the engine. I have a piece of cardboard I hang on the antenna so I have to move it to open the door. It reminds me that the Katz is on.
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| awyaks | Jan 16 2011, 09:48 AM Post #5 |
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New Member
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I installed a Kat's 1000 watt heater this winter and went directly in series with the heater (the outlet of the Kat's heater goes to the heater core, then from the heater core to the throttle body). I park inside a 35-40 deg garage and was a little dissapointed, my temp gauge is only slightly above the "C" line after running the block heater for an hour, I was hoping for more. I only drive 7 miles to work, and it's usually 1/3 the way from "C" to "H" on the gauge by the time I get there. I haven't installed a grill block yet, but plan to do that. Is this normal? How much difference would I expect going in parallel with the heater core as Bad Bend describes? Would that just help the initial gauge reading, or would it actually heat the block quicker? |
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| Bad Bent | Jan 16 2011, 01:43 PM Post #6 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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That seems normal. I use it is just to take the edge off of warming up. I leave it on for 30 minutes and it is just below or right at the "C" BUT it does not high idle at ~1500 for warming up. If anything the engine stumbles a little if I try to just drive off. I wait a minute for the plug/piston/chamber to warm up before I drive off. On my engine the Coolant Temp Sensor is on the TB and the gauge sensor is on the block so the Katz is heating the TB first so the ECM thinks the engine is warm. The hose goes into the bottom of the TB and may circulate up to the CTS. At least it is better than recirculating to the radiator. The idea is for the CTS to tell the ECM that the engine is warm (which the coolant is) so it does not high idle. IMHO.
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| c140flyer | Jan 16 2011, 02:04 PM Post #7 |
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I just installed mine this morning.It is the 850 watt unit. I mounted the unit on the front panel in front of the exhaust manifold. I plumbed it inline with the inlet to the heater. I haven't driven it yet, but after 11/2 hrs.,the gauge reads almost to the normal area and the heat (engine off) blows hot! I imagine that if I run the engine, it will actually cool off a bit as some of the cooler antifreeze in the engine block will circulate through... I'll start the car in 30 minutes or so and get back to you.Thanks, Larry |
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| awyaks | Jan 16 2011, 02:29 PM Post #8 |
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New Member
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Thanks Bad Bent. Makes sense. My engine doesn't high idle after heating with the Katz, so I'll call it good and move on. |
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| c140flyer | Jan 16 2011, 03:13 PM Post #9 |
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Here's a follow-up on the heater. I went out to the car after it had been on for 2 hours. The heater had just shut off a few minutes before I got there. When I turned the key(engine not started yet), the gauge was right at the bottom! I was shocked. It seems it only is up in temp when the unit is operating.I started the car and I did have luke-warm heat immediately. I drove about 2 miles before it was up to normal operating temperature. Without the Katz, it would probably take 4-5 miles to get to temperature at this outside temperature(about 35 deg.). On a side note, the coolant temp will increase faster if you leave the heating fan off. All in all, it appears to work normally, but not quite up to my expectations. Was it worth it? Probably. I'll use it each morning before my commute and form a better opinion later. Larry |
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| Bad Bent | Jan 16 2011, 03:31 PM Post #10 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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1) I suspect the sensor had not heated up yet and the gauge would read 0. 2) That warm-up scenario is about the same as mine. 3) On a side note, the coolant temp will increase faster if you leave the heating fan off. Good point. May I add that mine seems to increase faster if I keep the COLD/HOT setting on COLD until it is maybe 1/2 way to normal operating temp. For daily use you might consider a simple light/appliance timer. Plug it in when you get home and it turns on 1/2 hour (30 minutes if you use the metric system), before you leave for werk. |
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| c140flyer | Jan 16 2011, 04:31 PM Post #11 |
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That's what I've got it wired into. I'm going to try 2 hours heat before work. The gauge still mystifies me. When the unit was on, the temp gauge went up to normal operating temp. When it was off for a few minutes, it was right at the bottom. On another side note, when I flew, we preheated the engines whenever it got below freezing. I usually used a propane heater with a 12 volt fan. A half hour of pre-heat per engine brought them right up to temp. My twin (Piper Apache) even had a gasoline heater in the nose which could heat the cabin before engine start. That heater was quite trouble-prone though...Larry |
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| Woodie | Jan 16 2011, 04:31 PM Post #12 |
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I never saw mine move the gauge off stone cold, but could definitely tell the difference in how fast the gauge moved when I started driving. Warmed up much quicker, and on frosty days I could see the clear spots on the windshield above the defrost outlets. |
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| nerys | Jan 16 2011, 09:58 PM Post #13 |
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Grr
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if it shaves 2 or more miles off your warm up it will pay for itself in one winter. so yeah its worth it :-) when it was mildly cold (around freezing) my car took less than 2 miles to heat up. at the 15'F and colder lately it can take 5to6 miles to warm up and even the wimpy little 400watt unit I got knocks over 3 miles off that. well worth it. |
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| zukiman | Feb 20 2012, 08:44 PM Post #14 |
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Fresh Fish
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on my Firefly 1.3 L there are 2 hoses, one goes to the thermostat housing and the other is T into the lower rad hose. I connected to the lower rad hose T into the tank heater and out to the heater core. but I don't get any heat when at an idle. do I have it backwards? Any help would be greatfully appreciated. |
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| Bad Bent | Feb 21 2012, 01:47 AM Post #15 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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Welcome to your new forum, zukiman! The Katz heater is for preheating and is unplugged before starting the car. So I'm not understanding the part about being at idle? There is no problem putting hot coolant into the heater core. You are pulling cold coolant from the lower radiator hose. Depending on which heater core hose you are flowing coolant into... you may be simply circulating coolant through the black metal hose behind the block? It should not circulate on the same hose without something like the heater core in between the inlet and outlet. IMHO. Turn your heater on for 30 minutes and feel which hoses are hot. The main idea is to get the hoses around the TB hot so the Coolant Temp. Sensor thinks the engine is warm and does not raise the idle and the engine warms up a little faster. |
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Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

I'd like to just add it inline seeing how the hoses are both 5/8", but if there's a better way, I'm all for it. Could someone make a block diagram that shows the other method? I've seen a few pics, and they aren't making sense to me. Maybe I'm just thick- headed , but I'm a little confused.
Any takers?




This way the TB is the first to get hot coolant.


![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
I imagine that if I run the engine, it will actually cool off a bit as some of the cooler antifreeze in the engine block will circulate through... I'll start the car in 30 minutes or so and get back to you.
I was shocked. It seems it only is up in temp when the unit is operating.
3:33 AM Jul 11