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Texting While Driving in San Antonio, Tx; New Law
Topic Started: Jan 16 2011, 11:48 AM (6,126 Views)
nerys
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Grr

"You need, in the sense of it being necessary"

thats require.

need is something you require that you DO NOT HAVE.

when you have a flat and no tire YOU NEED a tire.

when you have a flat and DO have a tire you do not NEED the tire you already have it.

this does not mean the car no longer requires it it means you no longer NEED it since you already have it.

and I never ever agree to disagree. ever.
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CityConnection
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Sir, yes sir!

And this folks is why I won't bother discussing anything with him. Enjoy the futility!
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iamgeo
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Big League

CityConnection
Jan 20 2011, 07:49 PM
And this folks is why I won't bother discussing anything with him. Enjoy the futility!
:gp
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mjspiess
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This person can't multitask or task switch worth crap: http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/fountain-lady-nobody-went-to-my-aid-23909987 Perfect example of why people should not text & drive. This lady can't even text & walk!

Absolutely hilarious & she's prob. going to get a settlement out of it because "no one came to her rescue" Unbelievable...
Edited by mjspiess, Jan 20 2011, 09:21 PM.
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iamgeo
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Big League

I have been hearing about this all day on talk radio.
Just watched the video.
I laughed so hard I peed a little.
This dumbass does not deserve one red cent.
Here comes

Posted Image
Edited by iamgeo, Jan 20 2011, 09:46 PM.
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CityConnection
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Sir, yes sir!

You couldn't have picked a better story. And guess what? It gets better...

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=280672
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nerys
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Grr

thats poetic. Have that video saved to my phone already. Just love watching it when some douche on a phone annoys me :-)
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yiffzer
Forgot His Manpurse

mjspiess
Jan 20 2011, 09:09 PM
This person can't multitask or task switch worth crap: http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/fountain-lady-nobody-went-to-my-aid-23909987 Perfect example of why people should not text & drive. This lady can't even text & walk!

Absolutely hilarious & she's prob. going to get a settlement out of it because "no one came to her rescue" Unbelievable...
The problem is that the video was not supposed to get out. She should rightfully get her settlement on the fact that the video should have never been made public. Yes, we all enjoyed a laugh but it is at the expense at someone. And yes, she sucks at texting and walking (can't imagine if she drove).
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yiffzer
Forgot His Manpurse

nerys
Jan 20 2011, 07:23 PM
"You need, in the sense of it being necessary"

thats require.

need is something you require that you DO NOT HAVE.

when you have a flat and no tire YOU NEED a tire.

when you have a flat and DO have a tire you do not NEED the tire you already have it.

this does not mean the car no longer requires it it means you no longer NEED it since you already have it.

and I never ever agree to disagree. ever.
Again, a simple search shows that 'require' and 'need' are similar and interchangeable. Another similar word would be 'necessary.'

Need can be used in several ways, as I mentioned earlier, however it can also be used in a similar manner as you would use 'require' and 'necessary'.

As I have already demonstrated, you can use need to express a necessity for something you do not have, but it can also be used in the context as a necessary means to maintain something (i.e. needing the ratchet to fix the car).

And as I have already demonstrated, you are thinking in the context of /new/ tires. If one tire blows out, you will need a new tire to replace the older tire. And even with the new tire, you will continue to need all four tires to maintain mobility.

Another example I can share is the following sentence: "We all need to eat to live." Generally, all of us have access to food (and some of it in our pocket even), that we do not necessarily 'need', in the sense of not having it, but we do 'need', in the sense of requiring, food in order to survive. To live, food would be necessary. To live necessitates having food. To live, we would need food. To live, we would require food. All of them are used in the same manner.

So need works in both ways: for something you don't have and for something that you already have in possession.

Though I understand your reasoning for saying, "No, I need it," is improper and that, "No, I require it," is proper, the fact goes is that need and require are similar and therefore are interchangeable.

If you still disagree at this point, you would need to provide evidence that explicitly shows the only way to use 'need' is in the context of not having something.
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iamgeo
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Big League

yiffzer
Jan 21 2011, 01:12 AM
mjspiess
Jan 20 2011, 09:09 PM
This person can't multitask or task switch worth crap: http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/fountain-lady-nobody-went-to-my-aid-23909987 Perfect example of why people should not text & drive. This lady can't even text & walk!

Absolutely hilarious & she's prob. going to get a settlement out of it because "no one came to her rescue" Unbelievable...
The problem is that the video was not supposed to get out. She should rightfully get her settlement on the fact that the video should have never been made public. Yes, we all enjoyed a laugh but it is at the expense at someone. And yes, she sucks at texting and walking (can't imagine if she drove).
I think she will lose her case.
Can you tell who it is in the video? If it was your sister would you have known that the moment you saw the video?
She says her co-workers laughed when they saw the video. Did they know it was her?
I bet they did not know until she opened her big mouth and told everyone it was her.

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nerys
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Grr

First your own points support me yiffzer. You want evidence? read your own post man.

they are SIMILAR. not the SAME. they are interchangeable but not ALWAYS.

I need only ONE example of it not being the case to proven correct and you and I have already provided it.

I will say again. I get a flat. I need a tire. I get a tire. I no longer NEED a tire I already have it.

the tire is still required. its still necessary but I no longer NEED IT. I do not have to go out and find another one because the NEED is satisfied.

Can you create a context where the need is continuous? sure. irrelevant. In the context under which I used the words I am correct.

Case closed.

as for the lady. She should get nothing. the litmus test for this is simple.

If I were STANDING IN THE MALL WITH A VIDEO CAMERA AND RECORDED HER DOING THIS AND UPLOADED IT TO YOUTUBE

have I done anything wrong? does she have the right to compensation from me?

HELL NO.

therefore the mall security ALSO did nothing wrong. she was in a PUBLIC VENUE not a PRIVATE VENUE. the recording was legal the uploading to youtube was legal.

they may have violated the rules of their employment but that is irrelevant concerning the lady and any compensation she desires.

In fact uploading the video might even be illegal (since the video was recorded by mall camera's its mall property and they took that property and uploaded it kind of like someone taking my video camera and uploading the footage on it to youtube) ie THEFT.

but again this is between the mall and security and has NOTHING to do with the lady.
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superduty5.9
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CityConnection
Jan 20 2011, 10:25 PM
You couldn't have picked a better story. And guess what? It gets better...

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=280672
Ha! Ha! Karma is a bitch ain't it?
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Oh, Hell Guys. All this Talk Makes Me wanna frik'n wanna get out there and go Multitaskin'! Woo! Hoo! I'm gonna jump in my Twinstick Brownie Cabover White Freightliner pulling my Wide Load Drop Deck with a D9 Cat on board and cruise Wilshire Blvd. through Beverly Shithole CA 90210 and Break out muh BlakBarry-whutevah the heck that iz-and text Kim Kardashian, all while working my Hewlett Packard Laptop Computer. Think it can be done, GIT-R-DUNN!! Wish Me Luck!!
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yiffzer
Forgot His Manpurse

nerys
Jan 21 2011, 01:31 PM
First your own points support me yiffzer. You want evidence? read your own post man.

they are SIMILAR. not the SAME. they are interchangeable but not ALWAYS.

I need only ONE example of it not being the case to proven correct and you and I have already provided it.

I will say again. I get a flat. I need a tire. I get a tire. I no longer NEED a tire I already have it.

the tire is still required. its still necessary but I no longer NEED IT. I do not have to go out and find another one because the NEED is satisfied.

Can you create a context where the need is continuous? sure. irrelevant. In the context under which I used the words I am correct.

Case closed.
I apologize, nerys. For some reason, my English teacher told me that 'similar' and 'same' were the same idea (although I instinctively felt that was strange). I did a couple of readings and I guess it is true - 'similar' and 'same' is different. So with that said, I must correct my previous posts:

yiffzer
 
Again, a simple search shows that 'require' and 'need' are the same and interchangeable. Another identical word would be 'necessary.'

Need can be used in several ways, as I mentioned earlier, however it can also be used in the same manner as you would use 'require' and 'necessary'.

As I have already demonstrated, you can use need to express a necessity for something you do not have, but it can also be used in the context as a necessary means to maintain something (i.e. needing the ratchet to fix the car).

And as I have already demonstrated, you are thinking in the context of /new/ tires. If one tire blows out, you will need a new tire to replace the older tire. And even with the new tire, you will continue to need all four tires to maintain mobility.

Another example I can share is the following sentence: "We all need to eat to live." Generally, all of us have access to food (and some of it in our pocket even), that we do not necessarily 'need', in the sense of not having it, but we do 'need', in the sense of requiring, food in order to survive. To live, food would be necessary. To live necessitates having food. To live, we would need food. To live, we would require food. All of them are used in the same manner.

So need works in both ways: for something you don't have and for something that you already have in possession.

Though I understand your reasoning for saying, "No, I need it," is improper and that, "No, I require it," is proper, the fact goes is that need and require are the same and therefore are interchangeable.

If you still disagree at this point, you would need to provide evidence that explicitly shows the only way to use 'need' is in the context of not having something.


And to follow up, I will go back to your original argument that spawned this discussion:

nerys
 
you don't need oxygen because you already HAVE IT.

no by definition you do not "need" what you "have"

need is requiring something you do not have.


I am not disputing whether you used 'need' correctly - you used them correctly given by your context. I am disputing your insistence that the /only/ definition of 'need' is "requiring something that you do not have," which is incorrect.

'Need' is not limited to "requiring something you do not have." The word 'need' or 'needs' is also, by definition, a requirement. 'Needs' are necessities; they are requirements. Here is one source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/need

Quote:
 
–noun
1.
a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation:
There is no need for you to go there.
2.
a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment.
3.
urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity.
4.
necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry.
5.
a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.
6.
a condition marked by the lack of something requisite: the need for leadership.
7.
destitution; extreme poverty: The family's need is acute.
–verb (used with object)
8.
to have need of; require:
to need money.
–verb (used without object)
9.
to be under an obligation (used as an auxiliary, typically in an interrogative or in a negative statement, and fol. by infinitive, in certain cases without to; in the 3d pers. sing. the form is need, not needs )
: He need not go.
10.
to be in need or want.
11.
to be necessary:
There needs no apology.
—Idiom
12.
if need be, should the necessity arise
: If need be, I can type the letters myself.


The definitions under bold show 'necessity' or 'requirement', or in another sense, an 'obligation' as an alternative definition for 'need'.

Here is another source: http://www.perfectyourenglish.com/grammar/need.htm

Quote:
 
As an ordinary verb need is used in the sense of ‘require’. It has the usual forms needs and needed. Ordinary need is followed by an infinitive with to.


The line under bold show 'require'.

Here is one final source: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic12411.html

Quote:
 
The phrase "if need be" is a fixed phrase and I'd use it to mean "if necessary" or "if needed".

For the purposes of the letter you're describing, it seems to me that you should stick with saying "if necessary" or "if needed". Those phrases are quite standard and I see no reason not to use them in a formal letter.

I'd say you could use "if required", but I'd still tend to prefer "if necessary" or "if needed".


The lines under bold show 'need' being equivalent to 'necessary', or depending on the flow of the writing, 'require' as well. In essence, it all means the same.

Again, I am not disputing whether you used the word correctly. But I am challenging your original claim: "no by definition you do not "need" what you "have"." In this case, your challengers, horn12007, Bad Bent, and iamgeo, were actually correct. And gladly, the case is closed.

Moderators and the Geo Metro Forum community: I apologize for this off-topic post, but I feel that grammar is important and it warrants some level of discussion! This shall be my final post on this thread about grammar. Best. -Yiffzer.
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Shinrin
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This is a fairly stupid argument, just fighting over word play. You always need/require food, water, and oxygen. However, you may not need/require them at that specific moment. You need/require water every three days, food every three weeks, and oxygen every ten seconds or so. They mean the same thing here, you need and require them both.

Shelter is also a necessity. I live in Florida, I'd die within a year without some form of shelter. It's called dying of exposure. Now, a tree with low hanging limbs can be called shelter, however, it being easy to find doesn't make it any less necessary.

Let's see someone stand on top of a hill, no trees around them, in the pouring rain and a hurricane and say they don't need shelter.

You need food, water, and shelter. Technically air to, but thats just being difficult to bring that in.
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