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| don't want to break the law | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 18 2011, 12:28 PM (3,037 Views) | |
| yiffzer | Jan 20 2011, 03:28 PM Post #61 |
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Forgot His Manpurse
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100% agree with Nerys. A lot of people say things like, "If you have nothing to hide, what's the problem?" It's our freedom, liberty, etc. in which America used to stand for. Those are being taken away without us realizing that. Those "routine checks" /are/ indeed illegal. In fact, if cops pull me over for some "routine check" and they tell me, "Standard procedure," I will resist and say, "I have not given you permission to search my vehicle without probable cause. It is within my rights, sir." They know this and they can't do anything about it. If they still persist, then they are breaking the law. Period. Yes, Nerys likes to ramble on a bit but he still makes a valid point. And... he is not making these points just for the sake of arguing but hopefully to convince others to know their rights and start standing up for it. Because the more people don't know their rights, the more power they have over us. It's a constant battle, folks. Who said life was easy? |
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| Horn | Jan 20 2011, 04:04 PM Post #62 |
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Alright I have never been to a check where they search your car? honestly I have only been through one and I really don't remember what it was for, but they just wanted to see license. Are you guys saying that they go through your car? |
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| iamgeo | Jan 20 2011, 04:07 PM Post #63 |
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Big League
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I have to agree with nerys. Too many people do not understand the consiquinces of not standing up for their rights. That is why we are losing them daily throughout this Great Country. |
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| Horn | Jan 20 2011, 04:11 PM Post #64 |
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I'm not saying not to stand up for your rights, but there is a time and place that is more effective. Its like on cops when they are arresting a person. The person is pleading his case, but it doesn't matter to the cops. You have your say in court. Believe me the system is broken by far but pleading your case to a police officer usually wont make a difference. |
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| Horn | Jan 20 2011, 04:12 PM Post #65 |
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and also driving is not your freedom. Its a privilege not a right. But I guess now almost everything is a privilege. |
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| nerys | Jan 20 2011, 07:19 PM Post #66 |
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Grr
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Horn have you ever read the constitution. Drive is absolutely a right NOT a privilege. You have the right to assembly which entails the right to travel. this has been to the supreme court you can not assemble without travel so travel is included and any common conveyance of the time is included. This means driving is a RIGHT and FLYING is a right. next to walking and bicycles cars and planes are the most numerous and common conveyances in the history of mankind. more than horses more than buggies more than boats or camels. more than anything. they state ILLEGALLY stripped you of your right to drive and "gave it back" under the false pretense of privilege. this is a FACT. driving is a RIGHT not a privilege. the infringement of this right is illegal and unconstitutional. as for police searches. absolutely positive under no condition EVER consent to a search. PERIOD. let me make something very clear to you. If a police officer has a right to search your car lets be really clear here. HE WILL NOT ASK YOU. you will be commanded to remove yourself and the car will be searched. you will not be asked. period. end of discussion. 100% of the time without question without negotiation if an officer asks you to search your car he has NO RIGHT AND NO VALID PROBABLE CAUSE PERIOD. which is why he is ASKING YOU. because if you give him permission he DOES NOT NEED probable cause. most people really are too dumb to realize this. always 100% of the time state (politely but firmly) I do not consent to a search. if your commanded to remove yourself and he proceeds to search OBEY but state verbally and with firmness I do not consent to a search and KEEP SAYING IT till he acknowledges. this way if the search determined illegal alter ANYTHING found will be tossed and likely ANYTHING result from that stop will be rendered inadmissible and dismissed. but you have to ASSERT your rights. if a cop breaks the law it is your lawful right and duty to stop him by force in necessary. do I advise this? NO he can just shoot you or beat the crap out of you. so how far you want to go is up to you to determine depending on the situation and how much evidence you have. if in doubt obey and do not resist (much) |
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| iamgeo | Jan 20 2011, 08:34 PM Post #67 |
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Big League
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Not again nerys... You can drive all you want on PRIVATE property, You do not need a license or insurance. Your Right to drive ends when you get on Public Roads. You could plot a course and possibly cross from the East Coast to the West Coast via Private property. But, it is a PRIVILEGE to drive on PUBLICLY owned roadways that you and I pay taxes on. I see no problem with that at all. |
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| nerys | Jan 21 2011, 12:33 AM Post #68 |
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Grr
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I am sorry but you are wrong. it is your RIGHT to access public roadways. not a privilege. "The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by horse drawn carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city can prohibit or permit at will, but a common Right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." [emphasis added] Thompson vs. Smith, 154 SE 579. I am sorry but you are flat out wrong. Not by your own doing mind you. you have quite literally been brainwashed into believing its a privilege you should be "thankful" to the state for. this is not entirely your fault its how you and the rest of us were incorrectly raised. PRIVATE ROADS you must travel by privilege as they are NOT YOURS so you have NO RIGHT of access to them. Public roads by their very definition and moniker are YOURS TO USE OURS TO USE so long as you don't inhibit others use. it is your "god given" if you will right. it is not for the state to permit or deny. here is another supreme court decision http://mobikefed.org/2009/01/kansas-supreme-court-on-right-to-travel.php and another http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1331791/pg1 shall I go on? I can find dozens of others. Edited by nerys, Jan 21 2011, 12:42 AM.
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| yiffzer | Jan 21 2011, 01:53 AM Post #69 |
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Forgot His Manpurse
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While I agree, drivers are still bound to the laws of the road: "Each citizen has the absolute right to choose for himself the mode of conveyance he desires, whether it be by wagon or carriage, by horse, motor or electric car, or by bicycle, or astride of a horse, subject to the sole condition that he will observe all those requirements that are known as the 'law of the road.'" I'm not sure what people are referring to when they say driving is a privilege. Is it a privilege because you owe the state taxes and fees in registration, inspection stickers, and all that? Is it a privilege because you have to abide by the law? I'm not real clear on this. It is a right to use the roads... as long as you pay the taxes and follow their law, right? What exactly is the issue here? |
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| iamgeo | Jan 21 2011, 08:21 AM Post #70 |
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Big League
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I figured common sense would have prevailed here. I did not think I would have to mention that you would need to get permission from everyone in order to drive across their land. My point on that was that you do not need a license or insurance to drive on private roads or land. Nerys, you opened my eyes on the right to use the public road. Actually, you pointed me in the right direction to read and learn some things about this. As far as I can tell I do not need a license to ride a horse. Therefor I should be able to use a horse on any public roadway. Do you think it is wrong that we have to get a license and insurance in order to drive a car or motorcycle on the public roads? Edited by iamgeo, Jan 21 2011, 08:23 AM.
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| nerys | Jan 21 2011, 01:17 PM Post #71 |
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Grr
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Yes and no Iamgeo it gets complicated. I have not delved too far into this issue yet (other issues on my mind lately) but I have a little and its not perfect. Do I think a license is a good idea. YES. I don't want morons who don't know how to driving killing people. BUT here comes the stitch. Driving is a right? Does the state have a right to DENY me this right. that depends. Deny me for inability YES for any other reason NO. the problem is most of the time they use "any other reason" such as to force you to pay fines (that otherwise have no teeth and thats how it should be as most of those fines are unlawful in my book) IE they have ABUSED the power to license as the power to CONTROL. to compel adherance to laws otherwise INVALID under the constitution under the "guise" that you agreed to them by getting licensed. Yet its a catch 22 since you MUST agree to be licensed in order to enact your RIGHT to use the roadways that YOU paid for. this form of compulsory is not supposed to be legal. If a driver license was NOTHING MORE than proof of my "capacity" to handle a motor vehicle and nothing else. IE it could NEVER EVER under any conditions be "suspended" short of me proving incapable of driving a car safely I would have no problem with it. yet MOST of the paths to having your license suspended have nothing at all to do with your ability to drive safely. see the problem? on one hand I want people licensed but on the other hand I don't want the state ABUSING licensing for their own power/monetary gains which is EXACTLY what they are doing. I also do not ever want the license being used as "ID" because it can (and in fact IS) becoming defacto national "papers please" (which thankfully many states are fighting alas NOT for our benefit mind you but I will take a win anywhere I can get it) Now lets talk insurance. I am 100% against mandatory insurance "AS ITS CURRENTLY DONE" Do I think everyone should have insurance? YES Do I think the government should mandate it? YES but not like its done today. right now out car insurance is like this BS health care reform. they made car insurance mandatory but did effectively NOTHING to regulate car insurance. result. you goto jail unless you buy it which means they (insurance companies) can charge you any damned thing they want and you have NO CHOICE but to pay it. I pay $461 a year for my metro for liability only with coverage so low that if I so much as LOOK at an ER I am over my coverage limits. I am paying $461 for quite literally NOTHING. $461 for a slip of paper that keeps my car from being impounded and me going to jail if I get pulled over. thats it. You can not government MANDATE something without also government REGULATING something and not expect these consequences. for me the PROPER solution is to nationalize car insurance. Everyone pays $100 a year. Done. You will pay $100 a year to "renew" your drivers license so to speak. then you also nationalize how CLAIMS get processed. no more fraudulent claims no more frivilous claims no more "extra" padding in claims. Cost will drop dramatically and everyone will be covered. this would be liability only insurance your car would never be covered. if you wanted coverage for your car you would have to purchase this privately on the public market like we do now. This would dramatically reduce costs dramatically increase safety of our roadways and solve all this legal bullshit. Got a license? your insured. No more insurance cards no more insurance laws Nothing. the savings would be huge. but the profits would be nill. this system would be 100% efficient IE at cost. (ie a good thing) which is why it will never happen. this would also greatly increase the efficiency and cost effectiveness of FULL coverage insurance since now it would be 100% optional and they would OH MY GOD SHOCK AND AWE have to actually COMPETE for your business. Who would have thunk. SO do I think it is wrong we need a license? NO. I think it is wrong that the state wields the license over out head like a bludgeon to compel us and control us and slurp revenue from us. Same goes for insurance. yfizzer "It is a right to use the roads... as long as you pay the taxes and follow their law, right?" NO right to use period so long as you don't infringe on another persons right to use THIS is the "law of the road" not the states laws or the counties laws but the laws that derive from your responsibility in enacting your rights. IE you can't go swerving around on the road burning rubber causing pile ups and you can't take your 40mph HORSE onto a 75mph Freeway now can you your 15mph bicycle on same said freeway NOT because your don't have the right but because doing so would dramatically impact the rights and very LIFE of the others using that roadway. for the same reason while it is your right to fly you can not just "fly knife edge" down broad street in philly for the fun of it or fly through a restricted corridor (airport landing approach) IE laws of the road laws of the air. IE your responsibility in enacting your rights to not infringe on the rights of others. "I did not think I would have to mention that you would need to get permission from everyone in order to drive across their land. My point on that was that you do not need a license or insurance to drive on private roads or land." but you miss your own point. a license IS by definition a "permit" ie PERMISSION and permission can be REVOKED a RIGHT can not be (normally) when I as land owner grant you permission to cross my land I am literally granting you LICENSE to do that. its the same thing. I DO need "license" ie permission to cross private. I SHOULD NOT NEED LICENSE ie PERMISSION to cross public land short of showing I have safe capacity to do so if needed. A license is to show my ability to safely operate a motor vehicle. NOT access to the roadway with said vehicle. (at least its supposed to be) so YES you need license (permission) to drive on private roadways. your NOT SUPPOSED to need license (permission) to use PUBLIC roadways. and a private land owner absolutely can require insurance if they so choose. I deal with this often. We request permission from a land ower to use their land for a rocketry event one of the requirements is we be INSURED to protect said land owner is something goes wrong. this is all OK to me since its HIS LAND. public land does not BELONG to anyone it belongs to ALL of us. it is your RIGHT to reasonable access to that land. |
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| Horn | Jan 21 2011, 01:21 PM Post #72 |
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well speaking of driver's licenses, illinois license cost went from $5 or $10 to $30. Along with increases in title and plates. bastards |
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| iamgeo | Jan 21 2011, 03:57 PM Post #73 |
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Big League
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That must be the longest post ever on GMF. |
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| billy508 | Jan 21 2011, 04:17 PM Post #74 |
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billy508
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Welcome to Florida Drivers License * Fee to get a new Florida drivers License (original class E license) - $48 * Learners Drivers License - $48 * Class E renewal - $48 * Class D drivers license renewal - $15 * Commercial Drivers License - $75 * Duplicate License for a lost license - $25 * Replacement for stolen license (if police report is filed) - No Fee * Replacement for License with incorrect information - $25 Insurance Suspension Fees * First Suspension for Failure to maintain PIP Insurance - $150 * Second Suspension for Failure to maintain PIP Insurance - $250 * Third Suspension for Failure to maintain PIP Insurance - $500 * Failure to maintain liability insurance - $15 But I just noticed my CDL is good for 6 years. Renews in 2017 so I guess that isnt very bad. |
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