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Found out why my UPS started buzzing
Topic Started: Jan 24 2011, 10:58 PM (4,217 Views)
JellyBeanDriver


Over the weekend my computer UPS started buzzing - not loudly but loud enough that I hear it. Thinking that it was overcharging the battery I partially disassembled it, measured voltage and current - everything in spec. I turned off all the loads and still it was buzzing. Figured I needed to buy another one I ignored it and about an hour later it was quiet again. Hmmm.

Next night - buzzing started again. Weird. This morning - no buzzing.

Tonight I come home, it's buzzing again. Go use the bathroom and find the bathroom lights are faintly buzzing. Our house is full of CFL's so maybe one was going bad? Unscrewed each one and found that all were slightly buzzing.

Went to the breaker panel - it's buzzing faintly. I measure each phase - voltage look fine. Measured output of all the breakers - looks okay. Buzzing is reduced when I turn off a particular breaker but buzz is still there. Flip ALL breaker off except main - still faint buzzing.

So, it's the power coming into my house.

I share my pole transformer with 3 other houses. I go next door and ask my neighbor if I can listen to his panel - sure enough it buzzes too. Must be Edison's problem right?

Nope.

I hear the buzz in his livingroom from the wall dimmer and ask him how long he's had them. He mentions that just this past weekend he swapped in LED lights for the incandescent lamps in his ceiling cans. After trying some things (turn lights off - buzz goes away at my house, comes back on when he turns his lights back on), it's definitely caused by his lights.

Ends up his dimmer + LED lights are causing electrical noise to be generated and it's traveling back up the pole and down into my house.

I hate buzzing noises.
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, Jan 24 2011, 11:00 PM.
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Alpine
1020cc G10 GOML

wow that sucks lol
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JellyBeanDriver


Yeah, and I just remembered that I tossed out a nightlight and a CFL as I heard them buzzing and thought they were going bad. Wonder if this noise is the reason I lost the GFCI on the softub. Must be decent energy in the electrical noise being generated to cause a lot of my devices to emit an audible buzz.

Going to give Edison a call anyways and see what they recommend.
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metroschultz
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Please just call me; "Schultz"

They need to put an isolator between his house and yours.
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JellyBeanDriver


metroschultz
Jan 25 2011, 12:07 AM
They need to put an isolator between his house and yours.
Does that exist? I'm thinking the only real way to isolate is to have me on a different pole transformer - which they're not likely to do.
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Cobb
BANNED

Ive found the best way to increase the buzzing noise from an ups unit is to plug the cable that goes into the wall into out of the sockets on the back of it. :)
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JellyBeanDriver


Cobb
Jan 25 2011, 12:44 AM
Ive found the best way to increase the buzzing noise from an ups unit is to plug the cable that goes into the wall into out of the sockets on the back of it. :)
Just going to battery makes mine buzz decently.

Neighbor turned off their living room lights around 10:10pm tonight as my computer room was suddenly and soothingly silent.

Noise has always bothered me. I've got dog ears. Can be a good thing as I can listen to various conversations in a room at great distances. Can be a bad thing such as this case where there is a constant tiring din.

Think I'm going to have to work with him on solving this.
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DesmondGhostRider
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I'd have the power company come out. If you show them its a problem they should cover it if you are nice or aggressive enough. Just get a feel out for the person that comes out and try to push them in your favor.
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JellyBeanDriver


BryanTheGhostRider
Jan 25 2011, 01:49 AM
I'd have the power company come out. If you show them its a problem they should cover it if you are nice or aggressive enough. Just get a feel out for the person that comes out and try to push them in your favor.
Definitely will be calling the power company to ask about options. Again I think the only solution is another pole transformer - seems like that would be out of the question as the expense would be quite high.

They only need their buzzy living room lights at night so I'm sure my lines will be perfectly clean during the business hours that Edison would roll out a truck.

I'm hoping a better dimmer will solve the problem.
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DesmondGhostRider
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JellyBeanDriver
Jan 25 2011, 02:04 AM
BryanTheGhostRider
Jan 25 2011, 01:49 AM
I'd have the power company come out. If you show them its a problem they should cover it if you are nice or aggressive enough. Just get a feel out for the person that comes out and try to push them in your favor.
Definitely will be calling the power company to ask about options. Again I think the only solution is another pole transformer - seems like that would be out of the question as the expense would be quite high.

They only need their buzzy living room lights at night so I'm sure my lines will be perfectly clean during the business hours that Edison would roll out a truck.

I'm hoping a better dimmer will solve the problem.
IF the power company wont do anything about it maybe ask your neighbor to fix the problem since their house is causing it. A high quality dimmer switch or just a regular on off switch would prolly fix it. If they have any decency they will fix it.
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Rooy


Speaking of a UPS overcharging...I had that happen once. It was an older unit, came home one day and the UPS was beeping and really hot. Unplugged it and pulled the batteries and they were all bulged out and the cases had cracks in them. I'm just glad it didn't start a fire.
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Car Nut
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That would drive me crazy. You're lucky that you even figured it out. Suppose you lived in an apartment complex? "Hi Mr. unknown neighbor, I'm checking for a random buzz that I only hear at night, mind if I come in?" Get Lost! Door slams. Might never find it. Good luck helping/making him fix it.
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billy508
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billy508

I wonder if it causes any radio spectrum interference? When I used to play with radios a lot. I used to find that bad transformers and such would cause sever RF problems. I guess so much stuff now is hard wired or fiber optic that it may not be near the problem it once was. Certain types of electrical dives can raise hell also. I remember We used to get this really bad fluttering, grinding noise that was really loud. :smackface It would last for about 15 mins and seemed to come on about 10 mins after the hour 5 or 6 times a day for about 20 mins. A group of us tracked it down. It was some kind of a machine that a Chiropractor had. Side Note Over by Eglin they were testing some electronics and caused many garage doors to start opening and closing Quote"DASMA has received numerous questions from media and consumers regarding the issue of the U.S. military LMR (Land-Mobile-Radio) system and interference with the operation of overhead garage door opener remote controls.
What problems might a homeowner experience?

When a nearby military radio system operates on the same frequency as the remote controls to your garage door opener, your transmitter controls may not work, even from a close distance. However, wired controls, such as a wall pushbutton, should continue to operate the overhead garage door opener with no problems.
What is being done to solve the remote-control problem?

Garage door opener manufacturers are working with military and government officials to develop a solution that is best for homeowners and the military. Since many government personnel also enjoy the convenience of garage door openers, a mutually beneficial solution is best for everyone.
How widespread is this problem?

Throughout the U.S., as many as 40 million homeowners with overhead garage door openers could be affected by interference from the military’s new LMR system. The new system, mandated by the Department of Defense, began operating in 2004 at select military bases. However, that system is expected to spread to military bases nationwide.
Is this a new problem?

It is not a new problem. Over the years, frequency interference near military installations and elsewhere has occasionally occurred, but the problems have usually been for relatively brief periods of time. Garage door opener remote controls have been legally using radio frequencies for more than 40 years. I think the new openers have a random freq system that helps eliminate this problem.
:banana :banana :banana
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Cobb
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That might be a fire hazard. I was looking at some led bulbs at walmart and they state to not leave them on 24/7, not for use with dimmers or exit signs. Just use 2-3 hours a day.
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nerys
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Grr

not a fire hazzard its the combo of light and dimmer.

OK dimmers. do you know how they work? most people don't I did not till I researched it and wondered why I could not fix my LED over heating problem with a simple cheap dimmer.

I had assumed they reduced the voltage they don't.

electricity for our homes is AC which is Alternating current which is actually just DC flipped back and forth really fast (60 times a second)

SO to get AC with DC take a 9v battery pit it on a WHEEL that you can spin with 2 poles. when they touch the poles circuit is complete and you get 9v DC spin the wheel 180' and you STILL have completed circuit 9v DC but the opposite phase.

now SPIN the wheel. flip flop flip flop you just made AC current.

now imagine a sine wave as your current. at the PEAK you get 120v DC at the other peak you get 12v DC but in reverse. + - - + + - - + over and over again at 60 hz or 60times a second.

draw your sine wave you will see it is 120v DC one way then it smoothly goes to 0 volts either way and then flips and progresses upward to 12v DC the other way.

take a "section" of that signwave equally on both sides of 0 volts and REMOVE IT.

so instead of 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5

you would have 5 4 3 2 0 0 0 2 3 4 5

MORE dimming 5 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 5

See how that works? so in essence your always getting 120v your just cutting a chunk out of the each phase of the power cycle where you get NO power.

so your overall POWER is reduced but your voltage still peaks at 120v.

a light bulb GLOWS from heating a metal filament. this is why it still works because it RETAINS the heat long enough to reach the next cycle without turning fully off (losing all its glowing heat)

an LED does not. it REQUIRES a minimum configuration of power to function (so does a CFL) so when that chunk of no power kicks off the LED TURNS OFF. since its a diode and not using "heat" to generate light the effect is INSTANT. ie your light BLINKS (assuming the electronics can even keep up with this which usually they can't)

or your CFL tries to blink (but it just wears out its electronics)

if you want to see this I can show you actually. CHEAP LED christmas lights are not rectified. a rectifier takes the AC current and turns it into solid DC current (required by the LED)

LED will however work just fine on AC current but only one one "phase" ie the half the sinewave that is the proper + and - that it needs

for the OTHER half of the sinewave the LED is actually OFF producing no light.

your eyes have something called persistence of vision. you KEEP SEEING what you just saw even if its not their anymore. (think camera flash to your face and the after image it creates)

this is how you can SEE your TV even though its never illuminating the entire screen but a SINGLE DOT that is rapidly moving in lines left to right top to bottom.

if you "froze" time and looked at a TUBE tv screen you would not see a frozen picture you would see a single illuminated DOT. (this is not quite the way LCD/Plasma works the dots stay illuminated but are UPDATED in an order its weird I don't full know how that works yet but not the same as a tube for sure)

a movie screen works in a similar manner each frame of the movie FLASHES on the screen (it it was CONTINUOUS you would actually "see" the frame sliding up the screen so it STROBES as each frame hits the right spot) so the projector "FLASHES" the image on the screen 24 times a second BUT it is a "complete" image not a trace like a tube tv.

it works EXACTLY like a timing light works. in fact a timing light is literally the same thing as a film projector sans the film. it uses the strobe and your persistence of vision to let you SEE that frozen moment in time to time your engine.

SO the LED's only work on DC. the cheaper ones run UNRECTIFIED so they only work "half" the time. I actually prefer this. the LED's themselves can handle this on off cycling fine fewer parts to brake or fail and 50% duty cycle so the LED last even longer.

BUT some people can SEE this blinking even at 60hz. ever see LED's appear to "twinkle" like gems? well thats one reason I like them. I love the twinkle.

well some people this twinkling is WORSE (shorter persistence of vision) and to them its not a cool pretty twinkle its a nasty headache inducing strobing :-)

I can actually show you this. here is a nice cheap set of white led christmas lights at "high speed"


This is a 30frame per second full motion video then I "switch" to 300frames per second so you can see the lights are ACTUALLY blinking not on solid


Here is the same string but at 1200 frames per second. Remember at full speed you will NOT notice them flashing.

clearly the electronics in the LED bulb or the dimmer "do not like" this power condition caused by the dimmer and or bulb and its creating interference thats passing to other devices.

to fix remove the dimmer from the LED bulb - if its dimmer compatible then you either have a defective bulb or dimmer OR an incompatible dimmer.

to make this visible to your power company ask your neighbor to leave that light on when they leave so its "buzzing" when the power company gets their.
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