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Timing?
Topic Started: Feb 13 2011, 08:12 AM (2,787 Views)
Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

This is the car that was in an accident. Did you check the exhaust, the entire exhaust for any damage.

How do your spark plugs look?
Yes the MAP sensor can be tested. "engine running, hot idle, center pin of MAP should be 1.6 to 1.7 volts, on WOT snap peak voltage will be about 3 volts or a wee bit more"
Anything that came with the original engine would be suspect. Like the grounds on the Throttle Body, the TB coolant hoses, The TPS?
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Murf 59
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Have you check for a vac leak?
Also you mentioned that it did almost the exact same thing before you swapped enginesd. It maybe time to check the codes.
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mcmancuso
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You are disconnecting the vacuum lines from the distributor before setting the timing right? 8*BTDC should be fairly close to center(slightly more toward the back of the car) of the movement for the distributor.
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Bobbert
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enginedoctorgeo
Feb 14 2011, 08:10 PM
Question, what is the timing mark on that cam pulley? Do you have a picture of a cam mark on that pulley? Just looking at the rotor under the distributor cap is not good. You could mis eye ball it and still be off a tooth. You need to find the timing mark on that cam gear and align it 100% to the notch.
When everything was set the little hole in the cam gear to the left of the lower white mark was dead on. Today I had it inspected and taged. I drove it out about 6 miles and it acted exactly like it was running out of fuel. There was no backfiring when I would get on it. It would bog way way down until I started to let up on the accelerator and then it would show a little muscle. I would then go down on the accelerator and it would nose dive. I'm now starting to think fuel delivery problem. When I turn the key on the pump runs for a few seconds as it should. when I start it, it is hard to hear if it is still running. I don't have a in-line fuel pressure gage to check the psi at idle or with the key on. Does this sound typical of a faulty electronic fuel pump? The filter is new.
Bob
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Memphis metro


Short answer, no.
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Bobbert
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enginedoctorgeo
Feb 15 2011, 09:15 PM
Short answer, no.
enginedoctorgeo ,
Still think it's in the timing? Any thoughts about the distributer? It's been on all 3 engines.

Bob
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Memphis metro


:shake
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

Bobbert
Feb 15 2011, 08:17 PM
enginedoctorgeo
Feb 14 2011, 08:10 PM
Question, what is the timing mark on that cam pulley? Do you have a picture of a cam mark on that pulley? Just looking at the rotor under the distributor cap is not good. You could mis eye ball it and still be off a tooth. You need to find the timing mark on that cam gear and align it 100% to the notch.
When everything was set the little hole in the cam gear to the left of the lower white mark was dead on. Today I had it inspected and taged. I drove it out about 6 miles and it acted exactly like it was running out of fuel. There was no backfiring when I would get on it. It would bog way way down until I started to let up on the accelerator and then it would show a little muscle. I would then go down on the accelerator and it would nose dive. I'm now starting to think fuel delivery problem. When I turn the key on the pump runs for a few seconds as it should. when I start it, it is hard to hear if it is still running. I don't have a in-line fuel pressure gage to check the psi at idle or with the key on. Does this sound typical of a faulty electronic fuel pump? The filter is new.
Bob
The last thing I want to do is contradict someone on the forum, but I had the exact same scenario with my wifes Metro. If I stepped on the gas, it would loose power, and as soon as I let off, it would run pretty good, even idle perfect when sitting in the driveway.

Sorry Enginedoc, but I would recommend checking the fuel pressure, mine was running at 8 psi, and the car would idle fine, rev fine, but as soon as I drove it, it acted exactly the way it has been explained in the above post.

Bobbert, did this car sit for any period of time. I'm curious, because my wifes sat for 8 years.
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Bobbert
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1DCGUY
Feb 16 2011, 08:44 PM
Bobbert
Feb 15 2011, 08:17 PM
enginedoctorgeo
Feb 14 2011, 08:10 PM
Question, what is the timing mark on that cam pulley? Do you have a picture of a cam mark on that pulley? Just looking at the rotor under the distributor cap is not good. You could mis eye ball it and still be off a tooth. You need to find the timing mark on that cam gear and align it 100% to the notch.
When everything was set the little hole in the cam gear to the left of the lower white mark was dead on. Today I had it inspected and taged. I drove it out about 6 miles and it acted exactly like it was running out of fuel. There was no backfiring when I would get on it. It would bog way way down until I started to let up on the accelerator and then it would show a little muscle. I would then go down on the accelerator and it would nose dive. I'm now starting to think fuel delivery problem. When I turn the key on the pump runs for a few seconds as it should. when I start it, it is hard to hear if it is still running. I don't have a in-line fuel pressure gage to check the psi at idle or with the key on. Does this sound typical of a faulty electronic fuel pump? The filter is new.
Bob
The last thing I want to do is contradict someone on the forum, but I had the exact same scenario with my wifes Metro. If I stepped on the gas, it would loose power, and as soon as I let off, it would run pretty good, even idle perfect when sitting in the driveway.

Sorry Enginedoc, but I would recommend checking the fuel pressure, mine was running at 8 psi, and the car would idle fine, rev fine, but as soon as I drove it, it acted exactly the way it has been explained in the above post.

Bobbert, did this car sit for any period of time. I'm curious, because my wifes sat for 8 years.
I'm not sure how long it sat but I know it was probably less than a year. Push the pedal and it dives on it's face. Start letting off and it picks up. Idles great and under no load it sounds fine.

I going to check the fuel pressure and then back to the timing. Idle pressure and switch on engine off pressure correct?

Bob
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Bobbert
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Bad Bent
Feb 14 2011, 09:45 PM
This is the car that was in an accident. Did you check the exhaust, the entire exhaust for any damage.

How do your spark plugs look?
Yes the MAP sensor can be tested. "engine running, hot idle, center pin of MAP should be 1.6 to 1.7 volts, on WOT snap peak voltage will be about 3 volts or a wee bit more"
Anything that came with the original engine would be suspect. Like the grounds on the Throttle Body, the TB coolant hoses, The TPS?
The engine and tranny came out of the accident vehicle. I switched over all my accessories since it came out of a 93 and mine is a 91. Total exhaust is new. The TPS code tripped so I replaced it.
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Bobbert
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enginedoctorgeo
Feb 16 2011, 07:50 PM
This is correct timing belt installation. Are you sure yours is like this?

Posted Image

Posted Image
Mine is the second photo and the little hole with the cross hair is dead on the v notch. The bottom is easy to do, line it up with the spring screw.
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Bobbert
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mcmancuso
Feb 15 2011, 11:06 AM
You are disconnecting the vacuum lines from the distributor before setting the timing right? 8*BTDC should be fairly close to center(slightly more toward the back of the car) of the movement for the distributor.
No, I did not disconect the vacume to do the timing.
I'm learning so much on this little car.
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Bobbert
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Mr Murf 59
Feb 15 2011, 06:42 AM
Have you check for a vac leak?
Also you mentioned that it did almost the exact same thing before you swapped enginesd. It maybe time to check the codes.
I have no codes at this point.
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Memphis metro


The bottom doesnt line up to the spring bolt. It lines up 12 oclock to a mark on the block.

Edited, well maybe it does on your block.

Look at the pictures in this thread, Johnny posted one and further down is another. Which one of these is yours? I am assuming by you saying you lined it with the screw it is the last one. Notice on one block the spring is offset from being 12 oclock from crank gear and has the mark on the block and the other the spring is 12 oclock from crank gear.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4123158/1/#new
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Deleted User
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The timing mark on your camshaft gear is in the center of the small hole. There is a small vertical line through the hole. Your picture shows the cam 180° from where it is supposed to be. No need to remove the timing belt. Just continue to turn the crankshaft until the camshaft and camshaft timing marks align.
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