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Low compression - bad valve?; 1993 metro 2dr/hatch 1.0
Topic Started: Feb 16 2011, 06:33 PM (6,013 Views)
Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

We have a couple female members who have done lots of work to their Geo Metro here on the forum. One has actually tore down an engine and tranny or two and we have another one doing a tranny swap with some help.

If you have a friend or family member who has any mechanical experience, you can buy the parts and rebuild the whole engine in a weekend especially if a machine shop does the head for you.
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Oh and welcome back to your thread :) I agree with the above, I would pm edg and see if he has any advice as well.
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mcmancuso
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Ok I think some of your questions wer ecovered, but I'll go through the list and make sure ;)


"Quick question about your "overheating" comment. I have not overheated the car recently... however, it HAS over heated a time or two since I've owned it. Are we to be concerned about ANY overheating at all?"

If its been overheated at all, it should be checked for straightness, if its not flat, the machine shop will plane it.

"As for a machine shop, I'm guessing I just check my local yellow pages and start calling them to get prices on.... what do I ask? Just checking the head for cracks and "planing" it (what is that exactly?). ?"

Yeah, calla round, shop prices vary widely, and its unfortunately true, but you should probably have a male friend call... Some shops still don't take women seriously when they call about car repair work :( and it can make a difference in the quoted price :( tell them you want to have the head checked for cracks and flatness(maybe the wrong term here but they will understand) and have them do the valve install if you don't want to take that on yourself.

"As for the valves, if they are that cheap... instead of just purchasing 2 or 3, wouldn't it make sense to go ahead and replace all 6? This would be an easy removal & replace while in the midsts of the project.... right?"

check on ebay, there's some kits with all 6 valves ($43 free shipping): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Geo-Chevrolet-Pontiac-1-0L-G10-Intake-Exhaust-Valves-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZMakeQ3aGeoQ7cModelQ3aMetroQQhashZitem3cb2a48740QQitemZ260695164736QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
but the intake valves are usually 100% fine and do not need to be replaced.

"The auction for the rebuild kit says this in the description:
"Optional: If you want the oversize(s), please leave us a note in the Add Instructions to Seller box that PayPal provided when you go to check out with PayPal." I'm not sure what this is referring to, but do I need to ask about "over size" for this project?"

Typically these engines do not need oversize rings/bearings just a hone with a ball hone and you're good to go on the piston rings.

"The felpro gasket is only $48.99 (part number 9651PT), is this the gasket you were talking about? There are others made by the same brand, high performance, etc. for about the same price, does it matter?"

The felpro usually has the correct size oil holes, and seals well, many manufacturers make these gaskets with undersize oil holes and the felpro almost always has the right ones.

"Is this the only gasket that I need to worry about that is included in the rebuild kit from eBay? All other gaskets are good?"

Yes, the others are fine

"Now, since the gasket is under the minimum purchase price to use the coupon, what other items do I need to have on my purchase list for this project that I might be able to get from Advance to utilize the great savings included in the link you provided?"

Additionally I'd pick up plugs(NGK v-power are good) wires, distributor rotor/cap if you don't know when they were changed last, and you'll probably need an oil filter and coolant, all of which you can use the discount on. If you're going to be doing any of the assembly yourself, pick up some copper gasket spray too, good stuff, spray it on both sides of all gaskets for a better seal. And some RTV ultra black for things like the cam/crank seals and oil pan.

Good luck!
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93metrochick
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Thank you for the replies everyone. I hit a financial snag and couldn't get started on my purchases as quickly as I had hoped. If something else doesn't happen within the next week or two (knock on wood) then I'm hoping to make my purchases and tackle this project myself or find someone experienced with geos to do it.... one way or another, it needs to get done. The old girls is still running rough, but gets me around like a champ. Some days it runs a little rougher than other days but it hasn't been over heating and my oil level has remained stable.

mcmancuso and Johnny Mullet : I'd like to get started soon and if I end up doing this myself or with some help, would I be able to PM you guys with questions along the way? I don't want to be presumptuous and assume that you have time to deal with a novice as I will probably be asking simple questions that should already be known by someone taking on such a project.
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MR Bill
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Welcome back

Bill
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93metrochick
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allmountain40
Apr 19 2011, 07:34 PM
Clarksville TN huh? You in the military? I was stationed there 25 years ago. I don't know how much it has changed, but I wouldn't let anyone there touch my car, nothing but scumbags taking military guys to the cleaners. If your gonna have it done by a mechanic, take it as far away from post as you can to get a fair price. I spent a good amount of my time at Fort Campbell working on cars for people because the local businesses prey on the military. have you tried to contact enginedocgeo? I know hes helped other members out, and he knows what he is doing. Overheating can warp the head, so be sure to check that it is flat. It may need to be resurfaced if you got it too hot. The second shop you contacted gave you good advice. If you rebuild the head, it will bump your compression up and your old worn out rings may not be able to handle the pressure and start blowing oil by. You should re-ring it or else you run a fairly high risk of having to have it torn down again to do the bottom end. Oversize rings are if you have the block bored oversize, and oversize bearings are if you have the crank turned. If you are going to take your block in to get worked, they may have to bore it if the cylinders are too messed up. they would tell you what size they bored it to and you could order the propper rings. Same with the bearings. If the crank journals are scarred, they may have to turn it down and would tell you what size bearings you need. Valves are cheap, so you might as well replace them all. Planing the head means to machine the surface of the head that mates to the block flat so that it seals propperly. Have the machine shop check head for flatness, and to do a valve job. you do not need a pressure test because you already know the valves are bed, so do not pay for one. If you are going to have the block done, ask them to boil it out, and check the bores. tell them you want the cylinders honed. Ask them to call you if they need to bore them. This should only be required if they are oversize or out of round. Ask them for the measurements. These cylinders are pretty tough and usually only require a hone. As for the crank, that should only need turned if you threw a rod or something. ask them to mike it to make sure it is fine. Again, if they say it is bad, ask them for the measurements. If you have a haynes or chilton manual you can look up these measurements to know if they are b.s.ing you. I hope this answers your questions. Please feel free to ask away, we don't mind helping. :thumb

*sigh* I'm starting to feel very insecure about tackling this project. I had to google "egine crank", "engine block", and "engine head" to know what the difference was & what the parts looked like.

Question: How do I know if I need lifters? I saw mention of this somewhere in another post but now I can't find it. I seem to remember that this was something I might want to do if I'm tearing into the engine anyway. I know they make some sort of noise if they are bad, but I don't know how to identify that.... my engine makes a lot of noise right now, ticking being one of many. haha Would there be a visual indication that they are bad once things are taken apart?

Any special tools that I should be aware of needing in advance? I have a collection of the standard stuff, sockets, wrenches, etc.

Also, would I need to get an engine lift/hoist for this job?
Edited by 93metrochick, May 26 2011, 10:13 AM.
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93metrochick
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MR Bill
May 26 2011, 09:50 AM
Welcome back

Bill
Thanks Bill!
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Any questions you do have I hope you post right here, as they may well be the answers someone else needs but was afraid to ask. As well as JM and mcman, there are a host of others who have experience to add detail to the answers :)
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95-3banger
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I just finished a rebuild on mine a few weeks ago. I think you could take the whole car apart with a 10,12,14, and 17 mm wrenches. Well, maybe the matching sockets too! :) Oh, and a long handled breaker bar for removing the head bolts. They are pretty tight. I think besides that, the toughest part was pulling the little rubber coated washers (under the 4 nuts) out of the valve cover so it would come off.

You'll have to find a torque wrench to tighten the head bolts, but they aren't too hard to find (or borrow).
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Memphis metro


I have a lot going on but I might could help you out if you dropped it off in Memphis for awhile. :drivin
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93metrochick
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mcmancuso
Apr 19 2011, 03:47 PM
Usually the head is fine, if the engine hasn't been overheated, and you just need a valve or two, all it needs is a good lapping on the new valves and cleaning of the lifters. The $150 would be for checking the head for straightness, cleaning, and lapping in the new valves. I paid a shop ~$75 a couple years ago for just checking a head for cracks and planing it since it was overheated.

The valves and rebuild kit are from ebay, the felpro head gasket was from advance auto (the ebay kit comes with a gasket but it wasn't very good so I bought a quality one)

Use this link to get a code to put in at checkout for $35 off a purchase of $85 or more at advance auto
This link: $35 off $85

rebuild kit here on sale for $233 with free shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GEO-Metro-Pontiac-Firefly-1-0L-G10-Engine-Rebuild-Kit-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZMakeQ3aGeoQ7cModelQ3aMetroQQhashZitem53e639848aQQitemZ360344814730QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

exhaust valve $5.20 each $8 shipping, but more than one doesn't increase shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GEO-89-00-METRO-G10-L3-Exhaust-Valve-SZEVG10L-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20b2a9c161QQitemZ140436423009QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Just an FYI for those considering the purchase of the rebuild kit from the seller on eBay suggested here.... the gaskets seems to be crappy cheap ones. I purchased this kit and had the work done on my geo in September. In October I was back to adding oil in my car ever week or so due to an oil leak and I also had coolant leaking from somewere. It wasn't until this month that I was able to afford getting it fixed tis month (again) and had to replace the valve cover gasket as well as one of the manifold gaskets (can't remember which one it was).
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

:hmm Interesting. That's the kit I used a year ago. :news Sorry to hear yours went south so soon. :die
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