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Help Rebuilding a Tranny in Cleveland, OH; Bad syncros
Topic Started: Feb 18 2011, 05:15 PM (8,569 Views)
cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 12:59 AM
I'd swap 1 and 3.....the springs, ball bearings and the bolts.
Jittney, let me see what I can come up with. I'm guessing I'll check at fastenal to see if they carry this type of stuff. Do you know what the specs are for the ball/spring/screw?
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Checking the diagrams section....17-22 in this picture
Just wanted to also rule out that you have the washer included....forgot to mention it previously.
Not much for specs, but if you take this info along with your parts, they might be able to help you.
Good luck.

17 **059738 BALL 5TH & REV SHFT SHF DTNT,(04.555),(@06111-10003 ) (NOT AVAILABLE)
18 **061912 SPRING 1ST & 2ND SHFT SHF DTNT,(LOCATING),(**VPI 1-877-846-8243) (NOT AVAILABLE)
19 **061913 SPRING 3RD & 4TH SHFT SHF DTNT,(LOCATING),(**VPI 1-877-846-8243) (NOT AVAILABLE)
20 **061912 SPRING 5TH SHFT SHF DTNT,(LOCATING),(**VPI 1-877-846-8243) (NOT AVAILABLE)
21 **026363 WASHER FL M10.5X20X5 HARD CF(3275),(ALL MODELS ALL YEARS),(M10.5X20X5),(00.002)
22 **059920 PLUG 5TH & REV SHFT SHF DTNT,(L:5),(04.312),(**VPI 1-877-846-8243) (NOT AVAILABLE)
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

cryboytheman
Jul 20 2011, 01:20 AM
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 12:59 AM
I'd swap 1 and 3.....the springs, ball bearings and the bolts.
Jittney, let me see what I can come up with. I'm guessing I'll check at fastenal to see if they carry this type of stuff. Do you know what the specs are for the ball/spring/screw?
Let me rephrase what I said.
by swap, I mean put the bearing/spring/washer/bolt from 1 into 3 and 3 into 1.
Since the 3rd set is working...it appears to be a good 'set'.
Also, you will be assured that all the parts are there...for both sets.
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cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 01:39 AM
cryboytheman
Jul 20 2011, 01:20 AM
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 12:59 AM
I'd swap 1 and 3.....the springs, ball bearings and the bolts.
Jittney, let me see what I can come up with. I'm guessing I'll check at fastenal to see if they carry this type of stuff. Do you know what the specs are for the ball/spring/screw?
Let me rephrase what I said.
by swap, I mean put the bearing/spring/washer/bolt from 1 into 3 and 3 into 1.
Since the 3rd set is working...it appears to be a good 'set'.
Also, you will be assured that all the parts are there...for both sets.
I c, that's a good idea....i'll try that before spending more $...bed time for me friend ttyl :rocker
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cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
cryboytheman
Jul 20 2011, 01:53 AM
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 01:39 AM
cryboytheman
Jul 20 2011, 01:20 AM
Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 12:59 AM
I'd swap 1 and 3.....the springs, ball bearings and the bolts.
Jittney, let me see what I can come up with. I'm guessing I'll check at fastenal to see if they carry this type of stuff. Do you know what the specs are for the ball/spring/screw?
Let me rephrase what I said.
by swap, I mean put the bearing/spring/washer/bolt from 1 into 3 and 3 into 1.
Since the 3rd set is working...it appears to be a good 'set'.
Also, you will be assured that all the parts are there...for both sets.
I c, that's a good idea....i'll try that before spending more $...bed time for me friend ttyl :rocker
Current Problems
1. When shifting into 2nd, if I dont hold the shifter down hard (pull back on it and hold it in place) then the tranny wont stay in gear and/or she grinds as she goes into gear.

2. After going to R, I can not go back to 1st gear unless I stop by 5th and 4th; it's like the tranny gets stuck in R and has to be coerced back into the other gears.

Ok, so, I got out there and played around with the metro tonight. My goal was to try out Jittney's suggestion ("I mean put the bearing/spring/washer/bolt from 1 into 3 and 3 into 1."). I wasn't able to get the bearing out, but I did swap the spring/washer/bolts around. Here's what happened:

- I got'er stuck in R, meaning after having gone to R and back to N, the car was still physically in R. That sucked :-/

- It was easier to get into 2nd, meaning less resistance when moving the shifter, BUT the grinding seemed to be worse. The only way to not get'er to grind was/is to drop her in 2nd and slip the clutch until it was/is fully engaged.

- All-in-all, the tranny operated worse in that I could not get'er out of R; good thing I was on a backstreet :news

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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Just wondering if it is possible to put 2 bearings in #3 and none in #1?
That might explain the tight R and loose 1/2. :dunno
So....that was my real motive in getting you to swap out everything (including the ball bearing) :)
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cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
Hey Jittney, I'll give it another shot tmrw, but i'm not sure two of those balls will fit under the spring.....

Are you still suspecting it to be a worn out slider?

It's starting to sound like I'm going to have to re/split the case....I must say, I'm getting pretty good at that part :coffee

Mr. Mullet will be teasing me if I have to pull this thing out again lol.

TTYT
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Until the ball bearings/springs/washers/and bolts are all laid out, you'll not 'know' for sure what you have.
Getting the ball bearing out should not be an issue, provided you have a nice, slim, powerful magnet that you can get inside the bolt hole. The case being aluminum, it should let all 'the force' work on the bearing.
Insert a picture of Yoda :)
Suggest you go that route before cracking it open again, just to save time on your part.
JM can be proud of your efforts....as well as the rest of us. :thumb
Keep us posted :news

Note: I don't see a picture of the slider....so.... can't say it's worn out.
You'd have a better idea of that, if you happened to take pictures.
Even with a worn out slider on 1/2, it wouldn't explain the major issue of R being so difficult, as R is on a different rail.
Edited by Jittney, Jul 20 2011, 11:25 PM.
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Jittney
Jul 20 2011, 11:23 PM
Insert a picture of Yoda :)
Posted Image

When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not !
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Murf 59
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I got your email yesterday. Sorry we have been working really hard on this turn around at the plant. Remember the syncros do not hold that unit in gear. They only ease them between gears. The 1/2 slider is more than likely the culprit in not wanting to stay in second gear. Between it and the 2nd gear engagement teeth it just does not have enough to lock on to. Another possiblility is the dogs and springs in the 1/2 hub and slider combo is not have all three dogs pinned by the spring. One may have slipped when being assembled. Not real common, but it does happen. Also did you fit each syncro to its cone when you installed them? This is done with just a bit of emery cloth. Use a twisting motion with the emery on the polished cone. Then try the brass on it. It should lock up right away. Not just spin. I must get back after work. I will be starting my week off at the end of this shift. But I will try to get back here and see your progress. Sorry I am having trouble getting here often enough.
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cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
Last night, I pulled all the hardware out of 1/3 (bearings/balls/springs) and guess what...NO LUCK. She still gave me a hard time getting into 2 and out of R. I got sad and decided to working on something else for a bit. I ended up installing a CD player....I had this old tape deck...I just felt like the Red Beast deserved better:)

I'll be heading out to the campground tmrw mrn. Maybe I can get some more advice then...
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Well, that was worth checking.
Wild guess is that 2nd synchro is not releasing to allow Reverse and vice versa.
You're looking at cracking it and checking the 2nd synchro.
Mr. Murf or pacapo would probably have a better idea.
I'm just an apprentice. :)
Glad you can make it to geopalooza. :thumb
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Murf 59
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Jittney
Jul 22 2011, 04:14 PM
Well, that was worth checking.
Wild guess is that 2nd synchro is not releasing to allow Reverse and vice versa.
You're looking at cracking it and checking the 2nd synchro.
Mr. Murf or pacapo would probably have a better idea.
I'm just an apprentice. :)
Glad you can make it to geopalooza. :thumb
Posted Image
Great pic Jittney. Those are the teeth we have been speaking about. Can you post this same pic to our other friend with the same problem? :rocker
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Murf 59
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Were you able to get to a solution? I did see the pic of you and your car at GMP. Great pics. Wish I had been there.
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cryboytheman
Mr. Cryer
[ *  *  * ]
I still haven't figured the problem out:( Sad day. I've decided to purchase an XFI, install it and keep the current tranny as a spare. I'll be cracking it back open to figure out what when wrong.

Thanks for all of the help. I will keep you all posted on any advancements that I make with it.

PS
Thanks for the compliment Mr. Murf!
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