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2nd gear synchro gone
Topic Started: Mar 17 2011, 08:37 AM (6,365 Views)
98chevymetro
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How hard is it to replace synchros in a transmission? I've never taken one apart before but my 2nd gear synchro is toast. I've been double clutching to get from 3,4 or 5th into 2nd gear. That's the only option if I'm traveling at faster than 15 mph to downshift into 2nd. It shifts ok from 1st to 2nd but not from 3rd to 2nd. I've also noticed lately that the trans is just harder to shift all together. Takes longer to get into gear and it's not very smooth either.

I see a guy on craigslist who offers transmissions rebuilt (as well as engines) for like $1,000 plus your core and he says he inspects all the synchros and gears and replaces them if they're worn but for that kind of money I think he should replace them all. I would rather try to tackle it myself than fork out $1,000 and my transmission.
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mcmancuso
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you will need a 12 ton press or the like to get the gears off the shafts, but other than that its a manageable project theres a guide here:
http://geometroforum.com/topic/1387687
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Woodie
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If you're going faster than 15 mph, you have no business downshifting into second.
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pcss
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Mine was the same but I got lucky and paid $200 shipped for an xfi transmission from a member that had 120,000 miles on it. Still shifting great. You can rebuild yours but have a big work area so you can spread everything out. Take your time.
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Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

98chevymetro
Mar 17 2011, 08:37 AM
How hard is it to replace synchros in a transmission? I've never taken one apart before but my 2nd gear synchro is toast. I've been double clutching to get from 3,4 or 5th into 2nd gear. That's the only option if I'm traveling at faster than 15 mph to downshift into 2nd. It shifts ok from 1st to 2nd but not from 3rd to 2nd. I've also noticed lately that the trans is just harder to shift all together. Takes longer to get into gear and it's not very smooth either.

I see a guy on craigslist who offers transmissions rebuilt (as well as engines) for like $1,000 plus your core and he says he inspects all the synchros and gears and replaces them if they're worn but for that kind of money I think he should replace them all. I would rather try to tackle it myself than fork out $1,000 and my transmission.
The 12 ton press is excessive, but yes you absolutely need a press. The 120 dollar press from harbor freight is all you need. You will need the gear holder thing that goes along with the press as well.

For 1000 bucks you could buy 8-10 junkyard geo transmissions. That kind of money to rebuild a Geo metro transmission is outrageous. It's a fair price for a BMW 7 series transmission, but this is a GEO METRO we are talking about.

I say dive right in and go to town on that transmission. It's pretty easy, but labor intensive. It took me almost 2 hours just to pull my transmission OUT of the car, so figure several days from start to finish. When I rebuilt my transmission it took me about a week, but I really took it slow and took a lot of pictures. I highly recommend a digital camera so you can go back and look at how things come apart when you are trying to put things back together.

Figure 175 for the transmission kit. Another 100 for the clutch and I don't know what a rear main seal goes for cause I left mine alone, but you should knock that out too while you are in there.

LOCTITE EVERYTHING! Loose bolts in there can really wreck stuff with a quickness.

Good luck, let us know if you need help. Many of us have been there, done that and took some pictures.
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95-3banger
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I'm doing this right now. The pinion shaft has to come apart to fix 2nd gear and it is a chore to press apart. It took anywhere from 8-10 tons. I had to buy a 3" bearing separator plate to use with my press. I used two pieces of sheet aluminum to cushion the gears cuz I didn't want any chipped teeth on my gears! I replaced 2nd gear and the shift hub as they were both pretty worn out. We lost 1st gear earlier and had been using 2nd to stop the gears and get it in first. Bad idea!

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Edited by 95-3banger, Mar 17 2011, 10:57 PM.
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Coche Blanco
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Woodie
Mar 17 2011, 09:40 PM
If you're going faster than 15 mph, you have no business downshifting into second.
:gp
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98chevymetro
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Well what about when you turn onto a side street in town going and you are coming from 3rd gear, you're not going to keep going in third gear at 15mph are you? The point is, 2nd gear is not easily accessible when it's needed and it's needed quite frequently. You don't realize it until it doesn't work. I'm afraid to let anyone drive my car because it'll probably cause an accident. I had to let my mom borrow it every other weekend to pick up my niece way up north and I warned her about it. When she came back I asked her if she noticed it and she did so it's definitely inconvenient.

8-10 tons! wow well presses are nice to have, especially if you need to do things like this or wheel bearings.
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98chevymetro
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So chevy sells a rebuild kit? Anybody got a part number on that?
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mcmancuso
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98chevymetro
Mar 18 2011, 11:56 AM
Well what about when you turn onto a side street in town going and you are coming from 3rd gear, you're not going to keep going in third gear at 15mph are you? The point is, 2nd gear is not easily accessible when it's needed and it's needed quite frequently. You don't realize it until it doesn't work. I'm afraid to let anyone drive my car because it'll probably cause an accident. I had to let my mom borrow it every other weekend to pick up my niece way up north and I warned her about it. When she came back I asked her if she noticed it and she did so it's definitely inconvenient.

8-10 tons! wow well presses are nice to have, especially if you need to do things like this or wheel bearings.
Learn to rev-match and/or double clutch. If you're doing hard downshifting like that you should be doing this even if the sychros are good, this type of downshifting is what kills them.
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Murf 59
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95-3banger
Mar 17 2011, 10:54 PM
I'm doing this right now. The pinion shaft has to come apart to fix 2nd gear and it is a chore to press apart. It took anywhere from 8-10 tons. I had to buy a 3" bearing separator plate to use with my press. I used two pieces of sheet aluminum to cushion the gears cuz I didn't want any chipped teeth on my gears! I replaced 2nd gear and the shift hub as they were both pretty worn out. We lost 1st gear earlier and had been using 2nd to stop the gears and get it in first. Bad idea!

Posted Image

Posted Image
Could you post a pic of the damaged engagment teeth please? Our how too has great pics of how to split the cases. But no pics of the damaged engagment teeth. :thumb
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Murf 59
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With the proper tools go for it. And look at the engagment teeth on #2 real closely. Same goes for the 1/2 slider. Those are the teeth that look like the roof on a house. What happens to on happens to the other, except backwards.
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98chevymetro
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mcmancuso
Mar 18 2011, 12:45 PM
98chevymetro
Mar 18 2011, 11:56 AM
Well what about when you turn onto a side street in town going and you are coming from 3rd gear, you're not going to keep going in third gear at 15mph are you? The point is, 2nd gear is not easily accessible when it's needed and it's needed quite frequently. You don't realize it until it doesn't work. I'm afraid to let anyone drive my car because it'll probably cause an accident. I had to let my mom borrow it every other weekend to pick up my niece way up north and I warned her about it. When she came back I asked her if she noticed it and she did so it's definitely inconvenient.

8-10 tons! wow well presses are nice to have, especially if you need to do things like this or wheel bearings.
Learn to rev-match and/or double clutch. If you're doing hard downshifting like that you should be doing this even if the sychros are good, this type of downshifting is what kills them.
I have already learned. After the synchro went to shit I had no other choice. Now I do it all the time even in my subaru which has no synchro problems.
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

98chevymetro
Mar 18 2011, 11:56 AM
Well what about when you turn onto a side street in town going and you are coming from 3rd gear, you're not going to keep going in third gear at 15mph are you?
Huh, I do that all the time.
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95-3banger
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I tried to get a good pic of the syncro teeth, but the camera just couldn't capture it very well.

What happens is the points get rounded off, at the same time the teeth in the 1-2 slider and the gear do the same. This ends up with just a bunch of dull rounded parts hitting each other. Without the sharp points to direct the dogs together they just hit each other and can't decide which side to fall to. Then you throw in the groove that gets worn on the back side of the syncro and that lets it get out of time just far enough that they won't line up at all. That's how it can feel like there's no gear there at all, but still work fine up an up shift.
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