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Weird starting running issue
Topic Started: Mar 30 2011, 12:57 AM (1,348 Views)
Crimethinc
New Member
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I have guested a few times on this site but the problem I am having I have not been able to figure out so I figured it was time I asked the experts.

SO... 8 months ago I put a new engine in my metro. ('97 1.0) ever since then I have had a problem maybe only every two weeks or so. I will go out often in the mornings, but a few times on damper nights, and start up my car to have it sputter and die before I can get it into gear. I will try to start up again and about 50% of the time it will start and run rough the other 50% it will not start like it is not getting enough fuel, maybe. If I leave it alone for 5 min and come back more often then not it will start. Also there have been a few times where I will start and get about a block from my house and it will start to die out if I give it alot of gas or feather the gas or when it does die away from the house it will start back up. I have gone weeks without the problem and then had it for one day, then gone weeks again and had it happen three days in a row. I try to fix my problems myself if I can but I am about a day away from a mechanic visit. any advise would be awesome.

I love the emoticon choices, they have made joining the forum worth it already :rocker
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idmetro
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Welcome aboard! We love a good puzzle! I assume this is your daily driver so gets used regularly? A few questions come to mind that may help smarter minds than mine solve this riddle. When you changed engines did you replace the cap, rotor, plug wires? Was the new engine a rebuild, a JDM, junkyard swap or? Have you run a compression test on your new engine? The apparent correlation to dampness makes my mind jump to possible moisture in the distributor cap or a cracked coil. Hang in there, we'll get this figured out!
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Memphis metro


Welcome to the forum.

I would check the fuel pressure with a gauge and see how well the fuel pump is working. Is the check engine light on?

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Crimethinc
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Wow, didn't expect people so quick thanks so much. It was a junkyard engine with 90xxx. I did replace the plugs and cap but not the wires. I have yet to run a compression test but will see to that tomorrow. Since the engine swap I lived in Lawrence KS and now san diego and yeah I think I have noticed a correlation to dampness. The check engine light has been on for 60xxx, (Sheepish Look). I guess that would be a place to start but I never ought a reader in KS because anyplace would do it for free and here in Cali it is 90 for the diagnosis. will go check reader price today actually! thanks for the start!
Edited by Crimethinc, Mar 30 2011, 10:44 AM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Welcome to your new forum, Crimethinc! :coffee

Since it is basically new-to-you you might want to go ahead and change all the vacuum hoses and clean the engine/tranny/dist. grounds and other connections. If you are looking at plug wires then click on www.robietherobot.com/$50 plug wires

Your basic code reader is about $35 on eBay. $33-$38 readers I have an orange one, you can pay more for better and may find them for less.
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Crimethinc
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Okay updates, since I last posted I have changed the plug wires, fuel filter, pcv valve. there are no longer codes showing, it was a plugged egr valve that has been cleaned and opened back up, and it is now working properly. Checked the distributor, compression checked it and actually the problem now seems worse :banghead .
It started this morning and I drove to work happily :drivin , but when I got off work it was a beautiful 80 degrees out and it started ran for 3 seconds and then died. :die It refused to start back up for another 5 minutes, then started, I backed out of my parking space went about 50 yards and let off the gas to get in line to leave the parking lot and it died and refused to start for another 30 minutes. I got it started after letting it sit, I had to clutch and stay on the gas or acted like it was going to die. after I got it warmed up it ran fine and even started again after I got home and turned it off.
What's the deal?
thanks for all the help so far, I am confident it can be fixed but what it is I just don't know. :hmm
Edited by Crimethinc, Apr 10 2011, 07:07 PM.
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Mikey9999
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Delusionally qualified

Did you replace the distributor cap? I had a Metro for 100k miles and it wanted a new cap about every 30k. Yours seems worse after checking the cap?
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CityConnection
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Sir, yes sir!

Yeah. Inspect the cap and rotor for evidence of pitting, wear, and carbon tracking. Sounds like an intermittent ignition problem.
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Crimethinc
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No, but I replaced it when I replaced the engine. I supposed it wouldn't hurt to replace it considering they are like 8 bucks. I will try that next. :'(


If it was wouldn't it just die randomly whether it was warm or not.
Edited by Crimethinc, Apr 10 2011, 07:27 PM.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

I'm thinking a loose ground wire. If it's juuuuuust making contact the car will start, but when the car starts to viberate, then the ground wire could be causing the issue you describe. Look at the grounds. Do a search and there are a few threads which will guide you in the search for the illusive grounding points.

Hope this helps, or at least guides you in a direction you haven't considered.

Best of luck
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

:gp

As Coche Blanco describes them the elusive "Intake Grounds":
Posted Image

Included in this pic is the location of the Throttle Position Sensor. It may be loose or have a loose connection.

There are several grounds so simply clean any wire from the engine to the body/frame. I replaced the small battery post connections with larger "standard" connections and cleaned the connections.

You might try wiggling the wire harness and some wires gently when it is running to see if it cuts out.
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Crimethinc
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Update of dooM::::::::
I am stumped, My mechanic is stumped, he is giving up and rightly so considering it is costing him time and it is not changing anything. we have done all of the above, he has cleaned and recleaned, tighted and retighted the grounds. replaced the Crank positioning sensor. And just generally spent hours playing with it to NO RESULT!!!! Anyone know a Geo specialist in San Diego? Anyone have any last ideas before I Buy a gun and shoot it?
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

So there are other tests: Test CKP or CMP.

Fuel injector test.

MAP Sensor Testing

Ultimately, it could be the Engine Control Module.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

We need the Check Engine codes if there are any to start with.

What were the compression numbers on each cylinder?

Is the cat plugged?

If the car will stall at idle, you need to see if you are losing fuel pressure or spark. A spark tester and a fuel pressure tester hooked up will tell you. If it's not fuel or spark, then it's compression, clogged/restricted cat or exhaust, or electrical (ignition switch, ECU, ect)
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Crimethinc
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The check engine light was on the egr was blocked, it was fixed and now no check engine.
compression is i-150 2 100 3 150
My mechanic posted this on here:
http://geometroforum.com/topic/4227874/1/

Greetings! The car is fuel injected,standard trans 1ltr engine. Every time I think I have it fixed and its behaving for me upon return to the customer it returns to its faulty ways. Original complaint was that it would not start on humid mornings,then not on sunny days. Upon checking the ECM with code scanner came up with EGR insufficient flow. Checked out this system,cleaned and referenced all components,dug out passageways in the intake and head. Noted that the pcv system was restricted so we cleaned that out. Vehicle started and ran fine for several days then started stalling again. Checked out fuel pressure and flow rate which fell within approved specs for that system. Checked the camshaft position sensor for proper resistence, it was within spec. While car was running we disconnected crank position sensor to see its effect on the running of the car,no real difference. Timings on at 5 degrees BTDC. It appears that when the car stalls,if only momentarily,the car loses spark. According to Mitchell on line, this circuit could be effected by a faulty ISC motor,which runs a circuit with the positive input to the coil. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Please post answers here or e-mail me direct at www.ausumwho@yahoo.com
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