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Burning Coolant After New Head Gasket
Topic Started: Apr 20 2011, 08:26 PM (4,103 Views)
mcmancuso
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Personally, I always use copper gasket spray on mine, both sides. I've never had any leak issue with a gasket I sprayed.
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JohnDN


How thick should the copper spray coating be? Do you just want one coat or do you want to build use several coats to have a slightly thicker layer?
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Woodie
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Now that those head bolts have been OVERTORQUED, you certainly need some new ones.
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JohnDN


Hmm, I just noticed something today. I had one of the pistons installed backwards! I know this had nothing to do with my coolant leak problem, but I just thought it was interesting (and that I was lucky) that the valves still won't hit the piston tops even if the piston is installed the wrong way.
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mcmancuso
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JohnDN
Apr 21 2011, 10:07 PM
How thick should the copper spray coating be? Do you just want one coat or do you want to build use several coats to have a slightly thicker layer?
A single coat, so the gasket is uniformly copper colored is sufficient.
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

JohnDN
Apr 22 2011, 12:58 PM
Hmm, I just noticed something today. I had one of the pistons installed backwards!
I have a feeling that can't be good. :shake Also meaning the rod is backwards.

I know from experience, on a Ford 260 V8, that if the rod is backwards it doesn't get oil very well! :die My first build, at 16 years old, had less than desirable results. :smackface

Not sure what it will do on a G10.
Edited by snowfish, Apr 22 2011, 01:21 PM.
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JohnDN


snowfish
Apr 22 2011, 01:20 PM
JohnDN
Apr 22 2011, 12:58 PM
Hmm, I just noticed something today. I had one of the pistons installed backwards!
I have a feeling that can't be good. :shake Also meaning the rod is backwards.

I know from experience, on a Ford 260 V8, that if the rod is backwards it doesn't get oil very well! :die My first build, at 16 years old, had less than desirable results. :smackface

Not sure what it will do on a G10.
I didn't leave it in backwards of course, I already corrected it and the bearings and rods looked fine. It was only running for about a total of ten minutes before it got shut off and tore back down because of the coolant leak.
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JohnDN
Apr 21 2011, 10:07 PM
How thick should the copper spray coating be? Do you just want one coat or do you want to build use several coats to have a slightly thicker layer?
Suggestions and instructions for use are on the can.
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JohnDN


Update!

We have a parts Metro at my house. Before I began working on my car, I took the head off of the parts car to take some measurements on it. The head gasket off the parts car was a FelPro (with the large oil drain holes) and it still looked to be in good condition, as if the previous owner changed it not that long ago.

I had some of the Permatex Copper Spray A Gasket already at home. I cleaned up the FelPro head gasket with some Purple Power and laundry detergent and then put several coatings of the copper spray on it.

I also put some copper spray on the head itself to help fill in some of the grooves left by milling and help it seal better.

I just put the car back together about 15 minutes ago. I reused the old head bolts again and torqued them in the proper sequence. I screwed them down with a ratchet until they were just snug and then torqued them in several steps, first 15 ft-lbs., then 25, 35, 45, and finally 55.

I backflushed the cooling system with my garden hose to get all the old antifreeze out (which had some kerosene mixed it as some spilled into the coolant passages when I was soaking the cylinders with kerosene).

I filled the radiator up, put some oil in it, hooked up the vacuum gauge, and hoped for the best.

The idle was right where it should be, no more 2500 - 3000 rpms when I had the coolant leak. It started out around 1500 rpm and worked its way down to about 800-900rpms when it was fully warm.

Vacuum gauge was reading around 21 in.Hg (I'm about 750ft above sea level), but still had a small amount of flutter.

I was constantly checking the oil dipstick for milky oil, but the oil stayed nice and clean!

The tail pipe still has some white smoke, but not nearly as much as before. I'm gussing its burning off the moisture left in the exhaust from the previous coolant leak. (I need to learn to be patient and let it burn off, on several previous head gasket changes I see the white smoke again after I'm done and rip the head off again thinking I did something wrong when it was just built up water in the exhaust evaporating.)

I let it run about 12 minutes, and shut it down to cool down. I'll recheck the torque on the head bolts after its cool, double check on my fluids, and get ready to break this car in again. (I honed the cylinders and cleaned up the piston rings as the oil rings were 100% gummed up while the head was off.)

I'll post another update as I start driving it again and let you know if it holds up or if the coolant leak mysteriously shows up again.

P.S. For anyone doing any job similar to this, I'd highly recommend doing it properly. Use a new quality (FelPro) head gasket each time the head is removed, and replace the head bolts with 3Techs reusable bolts, I would also coat the head gasket (and maybe even the head itself) with copper spray.

I know reusing the old parts was a big risk. Sometimes they will do the job, sometimes not. You'll usually end up wasting more time and doing the job twice if you reuse the old parts instead of doing the job right the first time. So I don't condone my actions, I'm just extremely cheap and wanted to keep this entire job as low cost as possible.
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JohnDN
Apr 23 2011, 11:27 AM
I know reusing the old parts was a big risk. Sometimes they will do the job, sometimes not. You'll usually end up wasting more time and doing the job twice if you reuse the old parts instead of doing the job right the first time. So I don't condone my actions, I'm just extremely cheap and wanted to keep this entire job as low cost as possible.
Been there, done that. Copper coat is good stuff. The last new to you head gasket with copper coat that I used lasted until I pulled the head off for other reasons ~ about 30,000 miles.
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MR Bill
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Things are looking up. :cheers :nfs

Bill
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cgem
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[ *  *  *  *  * ]
About coolant leaking...
I know they magnaflux engines, but not sure about the heads only. If so, I would start there to check for a hairline crack before I went on to other things. That speed shop surely knows about the procedure. i would call them ahead of NAPA. If they cleaned the head in an acid bath before milling, the acid may have dissolved some carbon in a crack that was actually ok beforehand. Never know, sometimes its frustrating, just part of the mechanical trade.
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JohnDN


I did a compression test today with the engine warm and cylinders dry. Here are the results:

Cylinder 1- 209 psi
Cylinder 2 -200 psi
Cylinder 3 - 211 psi

These are about the numbers I had before all the problems occurred. You'd think they'd be higher with the head milled 0.031", but I cleaned all the carbon off the piston tops so that lowered the compression a bit and the rings are still reseating against the honed cylinder walls. So I figured my compression should go up even more once the rings seat and carbon starts to build up again.
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JohnDN
Apr 24 2011, 06:47 PM
I did a compression test today with the engine warm and cylinders dry. Here are the results:

Cylinder 1- 209 psi
Cylinder 2 -200 psi
Cylinder 3 - 211 psi

These are about the numbers I had before all the problems occurred. You'd think they'd be higher with the head milled 0.031", but I cleaned all the carbon off the piston tops so that lowered the compression a bit and the rings are still reseating against the honed cylinder walls. So I figured my compression should go up even more once the rings seat and carbon starts to build up again.
Yeah, I don't know, John. #2 seems a little low. :shake

Congratulations on your successful surgery! :thumb
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