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Burnt Exhaust Valve(s); Rings bad as well?
Topic Started: Apr 22 2011, 10:23 AM (6,903 Views)
rmorman
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Howdy All!
Engine rebuild kit in my shop. Valves ordered this morning. Now to the finer details.
I will be going to Advance Auto and getting the Felpro head gasket, copper gasket spray, honing oil, parts cleaner, assembly lube & Ultra black RTV. (anything here I DON'T need?)

What other chemicals would you recommend?

What is the best way of removing the old gasket material without damaging the engine?

Tools: I've been scouring the forum and seem to have come up with this list:
1. Lapping tool and compound
2. Valve Spring Compressor
3. 3in Ball Hone (180 grit)
4. Ring Compressor
5. Do you guys use plastigauge on your rebuilds? If so, which one?
6. Piston Ring installer

Does O'Reilly or Advanced offer any of these tools in their "loaner program"?

I have marked the following links on the forum:
Bottom End Rebuild
Rebuild Head - detailed


Any other links that I need to be aware of?

This may seem like overkill, but I want ALL my ducks in a row by Friday.

Thanks,
Russ
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rmorman
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Valve Lapping tool & Honing Tool
Is this:

Lisle VALVE LAPPER 1-

or this

Lisle VALVE LAPPER 5/

The correct one for my car? I was leaning towards the Lisle VALVE LAPPER 1- but wanted to confirm.

Also, I have these 2 honing tools to choose from:

Brush Research HONE ENG CYL FLEX 3" (I don't know what grit this is)

or This

Brush Research HONE BRAKE CYL FLEX (Which I FAIRLY sure is 180 grit)

What is the difference between these two? One says it is for engines and one says it is for brakes. The 180 grit is what I want, but will it work in an engine cyl?

Edited by rmorman, May 2 2011, 04:53 PM.
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mcmancuso
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I rented a valve compressor from Oreilley, the other placed either didn't have one or had the wrong type, just a warning, most will not work on a metro since the valves are SOO small, you'll have to modify it, I did it by duct taping ratchet sockets on the ends that are small enough for my engine.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

You got a harbor freight near you? They have the lappers and the ring compressor. So cheap you'll want to buy them. I like all of the information you are bestowing upon us. Shows you are on the ball. But remember, this is a metro motor, not a Farrari. Massive amounts of tools are not needed to do the rebuild. A few MM sockets, Torque wrench(harbor freight--$19.99), lappers, ring compressor, yada, yada, yada..... Don't get too worked up while your digging parts out of the engine. It's a learning experience. Ya, you'll cuss a time or two trying to figure out how to pull the pistons out of the cylinder and then how to pull the rings off, buy, hey, it's labor of love.

Looks like you are asking all of the correct questions before you start. And planning on a long weekend to do the rebuild is the best way to go. One piece of advise I will stress, is when you are pulling the head bolts, GO EASY....DO NOT WRENCH IT HARD. The old head bolts can be brittle and WILL pop the head of the bolt off if they had been previously torqued too much. Go easy with the head bolts.

And a few pics would be nice :cheers
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rmorman
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Hello all!
I was just reading some posts about replacing the pistons. The e-bay kit I bought was http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-93-95-Geo-Metro-1-0L-3CYL-New-Engine-Rebuild-Kit-G10-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a54b42e56QQitemZ250529197654QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Does it come with wrist pins? I just realized I don't think it does and had planned on doing it this weekend. Should I just plan on reusing the old pistons?

If I do find some wrist pins, is there a good post on removing/installing them?

Thanks again,
Russ
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

That looks like the same kit I used. The Pistons come with Wrist Pins. They're pressed in with heat applied to the rods. I opted to pay the $30.00 and have a machine shop do them.
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Coche Blanco
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If you are going to do the pistons too, I suggest you oversize. It won't cost too much more, and you get a nice TIGHT fit and an even better seal than you would with just a hone job. No one has ever complained about that. ;)
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bennie442


rmorman, Coche's idea of over sized pistons will require that you remove the engine from the car and take it to a machine shop to be bored over sized. In other words, this is no longer an in the car weekend project. Just something to ponder.
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Coche Blanco
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I forget not everyone has spare 3 cylinders laying around their house. :P
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rmorman
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Coche Blanco & bennie442: It is true that I do not have an extra motor. Plus I already have the e-bay kit (including pistons) in the shop. So, as much as I'd like to do an oversized pistons kit...... I am REALLY hoping that the Cly walls are good enough to replace with stock size. Seems to be breaking a "Man Law" to to this without a performance modification (not counting the stainless valves), but I need to get this done quickly. Maybe next time!

I was going to add the +6 timing gear and stainless valves from 3tech, but either he has not checked his e-mail in over a week or I asked too many dumb questions (always possible)! I had to buy the stainless valves from partsdinosaur (very good guy to work with). I have been planning this project for a while and the rest of the parts should arrive today for my weekend rebuild. I guess I can add the gear later if 3tech responds. :(

snowfish: I was able to confirm with the e-bay seller that the wrist pins are included. Most farmers in my are have a torch and a press. If I can't get into a shop to do it, I'll opt for a local farmer's shop. Those farmers are pretty handy.

Thanks again. If anybody has more tips, let me know! I'll be starting early Sat morning!

Russ
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mcmancuso
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Personally, I'd run the pistons and rods over to a machine shop, they'll press them on with new pins for pretty cheap if you've got a good shop near you. Doing them yourself without a press and a rod heater is not something I'd do. And any shop not only will have the right equipment, but should have new pins on hand, and a shop should ALWAYS use new pins.
Edited by mcmancuso, May 5 2011, 10:15 AM.
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rmorman
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mcmancuso, I will try a local shop first.
I've been reading soo much here on rebuilding, my eyes hurt!

I did find a couple vids on Honing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJAuDZXmiU
&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqHQ5b4FAU

Found this on Hand Valve Lapping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s

How do I know when I have lapped enough?

sounds like 15 seconds per cyl for honing?

I know I read it somewhere, but isn't there SOMETHING about the oil pan gaskets on these??? Mine is a 1995 3cly.

Replacing rod and main bearings. Is there a How To that I couldn't find? Or is it as simple as grabbing and replacing?

Quote:
 
I'd also recommend copper gasket spray (pick it up at advance auto) and put it on both sides of all gaskets including the head gasket, never had a gasket that was sprayed leak on me You'll also need some RTV either red or ultra black for the oil pan, and on the outside mating surface of the cam/crank seals.

I got 1 can. If I use the copper gasket spray, I assume I do NOT use rtv? What gaskets, if any, would I NOT use the copper gasket spray on? Here is what comes in the kit: Graphite head gasket, Intake manifold gasket, Exhaust manifold gasket, Valve cover gasket, Camshaft Seal (I know RTV on these), O-rings, Seals, Front seal, Rear main seal, Oil seal and other small gaskets.

Thanks again,
Russ


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mcmancuso
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don't use it on O rings or seals, but all paper/graphite gaskets are game for the spray. No oil pan gasket, RTV (I used ultra black) only. Bearings are just pull off push on, make sure you get the oil hole orientation same as the ones coming off. I ran 30 seconds on my honing, but there was crap stuck to my cylinder walls. When you've lapped enough you'll see a continuous lapped surface on both the valve and the cylinder head, you'll see what I mean as you go.
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rmorman
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Sounds pretty straight forward. I bet I'm going to be just fine.

Another question popped into mind as I was reading about bearings.... Where all do I use the engine assembly lube I bought?
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mcmancuso
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I use engine oil on the cylinder walls(want these to break in) after honing and the inside of seals/o-rings(metal-to-rubber), assembly lube on the surfaces of the bearings and valve lifters/stems(any metal-to-metal sliding contact).
Edited by mcmancuso, May 5 2011, 01:18 PM.
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