Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
| Water Powered car; Anyone heard of this? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 13 2011, 09:26 PM (3,050 Views) | |
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 01:58 AM Post #16 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
KY Metro. your actually wrong. well your right technically but your wrong in reality. its not how close to a primary source you can get. its how much CONTROL can you exert over a primary source and what does that primary source cost you. the issue is not energy the issue is COST per unit energy. Hydrogen is a waste of money. YES a water powered car is possible NO its not practical. its not that it uses 5 times the energy which is completely irrelevant since the energy it uses is electricity and electricity is WAY more than 5 times "cheaper" per unit than gasoline so either way you come out on top (again CONTROL of the energy source) its that you have to bring FIVE TIMES more energy "with you" per mile. the storage medium you would use is batteries. problem is if you have enough electricity to go 20 miles via battery hydrogen fuel cell you also have enough battery power to go 100 miles if you just plug the battery into an electric motor. so why bother with hydrogen? the reason is simple. CONTROL. the reason our government and our corporations desire to make fuel cells work is that they RETAIN CONTROL over the COST PER UNIT ENERGY since you have to goto "their" pumps to "GET" this hydrogen. Oh wait. you were delusional and thought you would be legally allowed to make your own hydrogen even if it was practical and cost effective. How quaint :-) (sarcasm here no offense intended) yeah right. first thing they will do if someone makes a practical cheap way to produce and STORE hydrogen at home is render it ILLEGAL. Must retain that control. this is why they DO NOT want to go practical electric. transfers too much control to "US" the consumer. I agree electric is probably the future. even at today's crazy solar prices a $10,000 solar array will produce all the power you need for an electric car (assuming average 12,000 miles a year) in fact FORD is offering that deal with their 2012 focus. alas this focus will probably have all kinds of unwanted expensive crap making it an expensive car that us mere mortals can not afford. (I have yet to find a price for it) with panels from Nano Solar a $1000 panel will do the same job. now your FUEL costs after purchasing the panels are ZERO dollars per mile since the electricity you sell to the grid will equal the electricity you use to charge the car IE net ZERO electrical cost. |
![]() |
|
| Woodie | Aug 15 2011, 04:17 AM Post #17 |
![]()
|
Yeah, but I like to go places at night.
|
![]() |
|
| Woodie | Aug 15 2011, 04:18 AM Post #18 |
![]()
|
I agree, but it's WAYYYYYYY in the future unless gas prices skyrocket. |
![]() |
|
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 10:29 AM Post #19 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
I disagree. the tech was HERE over a decade ago. lets be realistic woodie. HOW MUCH RANGE do you really need. I drive 40,000 miles a year. I have to be in the top 10% of even drivers on THIS SITE and this site is probabably in the top 1% nationally for miles per year. many of us drive metros BECAUSE we drive a lot of miles so our fuel bill is HUGE. if I only drove 12k a year I would not CARE about mpg and would just drive my van for its comforts. so lets get real woodie. how many miles do you really need. LETS set some conditions. you still have your metro when you truly do need more range than the electric can give you. If I could give you a $16k car (and solar panel to offset power used to charge) that would go 80-110 miles per charge would recharge usually in 1-2 hours tops with a battery pack that was $4500 and would last you at least 250,000 miles. are you saying this would not be enough? do the math on the savings EVEN COMPARED TO A METRO. My work commute is at minimum 54 miles ONE WAY. this electric car would ELIMINATE 95-98% of my "gas" needs for the year. the only time I would need to use gas would be to "tow" something larger than a small trailer (boat or camper) or to go on a trip of more than 100 miles. so what 10 times a year? 15 times MAX ? OK if you just happen to need more than 100 miles one way OK the tech is not ready for YOU but that also places you in an extreme minority of less than 1% of our population. the tech is already here. its done. its ready. its cheap. they simply flat out REFUSE to build and sell it (and for good reason from there point of view) go places at night? thats what batteries are for dude. you don't RUN off the solar. the solar just "offsets" the power you use to charge the car. |
![]() |
|
| Coche Blanco | Aug 15 2011, 10:33 AM Post #20 |
|
Troll Certified
![]()
|
I also agree with that. |
![]() |
|
| Coche Blanco | Aug 15 2011, 10:34 AM Post #21 |
|
Troll Certified
![]()
|
Let's get real woodie! 8====D |
![]() |
|
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 01:08 PM Post #22 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
I am serious. If I can't convince economy minded intelligent people like you what chance in hell do I have of convincing average joe? none. 99% of the excuses people have for saying "electric is not ready" yet its "way in the future" is 100% propaganda supported and NOT factually supported. I mean come on SHELL had a 149mpg Studebaker. a giant heavy tank compared to a metro 40 years ago. where is it? I mean the propaganda " Sh*^ sty" is so deep rotten and stinky I have trouble convincing people I can get 50 and 60 mpg in my metro and its right in front of them. you should have seen the attendants look on my way home from Ohio when I said over the last 422miles I got 70mpg. HE said no way a car can get 70mpg. I had to take him outside and show him the odometer and gas receipt. and all I did was turn off the engine 4 or 5 times and keep my foot out of the gas pedal. Edited by nerys, Aug 15 2011, 01:13 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| KY Metro | Aug 15 2011, 03:34 PM Post #23 |
|
Member
![]()
|
Nerys, Let's steer clear of the electric vehicle debate. It's been done to death. Instead, let's focus on the other kinds of motive power, like us average joe guys can do. Compressed air is actually a cheap low-tech way to store energy, much cheaper than hydrogen equipment. Homemade ethanol or biodiesel is also energy/labor intense, but that energy is then in a dense format. I am partial to wood because it is very easy to process into a usable fuel. And it's all around you, you just have to pick it up. Anyone can run a normal ICE on woodgas, with little modification. |
![]() |
|
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 03:59 PM Post #24 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
I am curious how much "wood" do you need per mile. ie if I wanted to make a 60 mile trip how much wood would that use? Most of the other techs "are" electric just with another third party device in the way (compressed air cars are electric cars you just replace the battery with a compressed air tank) alas those compressors are CRAZY expensive :-) novel idea though and I like it. if you can get enough range its a good compromise till someone makes an affordable battery available on the market. it however is NOT CHEAP and is NOT LOW TECH. you need seriously crazy powerful (and expensive) compressors and serious expensive composite carbon tanks to HOLD the HPA. last I heard they were maxing around 25-30 miles range but you could put an onboard compressor gas powered to cover the "last leg" distance if you need more. Edited by nerys, Aug 15 2011, 04:00 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| KY Metro | Aug 15 2011, 04:58 PM Post #25 |
|
Member
![]()
|
15 to 20 pounds of wood = 1 gallon gasoline. Most vehicles would get about a pound to the mile. 60 mile trip would be 60 lbs, or about a sackful. At least one guy (Wayne Keith) regularly makes long trips, running solely on wood. On the compressed air thing - It has some other problems, notably the refrigeration effect during expansion. Steam power would be much simpler to produce on demand. One company I know of has an automotive steam engine in the works - Cyclone Power, http://www.cyclonepower.com You can fuel it with any heat source, they even have one called the WHE or Waste Heat Engine. Last I heard they are getting 35% overall efficiency, much better than traditional steam engines. |
![]() |
|
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 06:20 PM Post #26 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
I was thinking of putting a tank of water in the car wrapping coils around all the hot parts of the exhaust and insulating it all to maximize heat transfer and then using this to drive a steam engine in the back as a steam/gas hybrid kind of thing. then I did the math on how many gallons of WATER I would have to carry. Ouch. something like 200 gallons for a 54mile trip. unless the system could recycle the water. ie reuse it. hmm that wood gas would get impractical very quickly. 60 pounds of wood costs more than 1 gallon of gasoline (the amount I need to get to work) unless you have an insanely large supply of your own wood. still wood gas fascinates me :-) |
![]() |
|
| metromizer | Aug 15 2011, 07:44 PM Post #27 |
![]()
|
I do remember reading about either Jim Fueling, or Smokey Yunick, doing research in the 1970's on a pre- intake vaporized gasoline Chevy Vega that got 60 or 70mpgs? I think I read he scrapped the idea because it was deemed to dangerous. Maybe he learned of the Dune Buggy guy, or maybe oil refineries having (vaporized) gasoline explosions once in a while got his attention? The hydrogen thing is a strange one... an ICE will in fact run on hydrogen. The confusion surrounding this idea is some snake oil salesman asserting that one can simply use the 'excess electrical generating capacity' of the alternator to produce enough hydrogen for a net gain. Like my physics 101 teacher used to say: "once again, there is no free lunch". Bruce Crower has done some modern work on water powered engines. Stan Meyer notes here: http://waterpoweredcar.com/stan.html Edited by metromizer, Aug 15 2011, 07:50 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| KY Metro | Aug 15 2011, 08:13 PM Post #28 |
|
Member
![]()
|
Really? My wood costs about $125 for a 7 ton load (5 tons when dry), which works out to about 25 cents a gallon. Go find a sawmill and get some scraps. They churn out tons of them. Or talk to your local power company, they chip up tons of tree branches, and throw them all away. |
![]() |
|
| nerys | Aug 15 2011, 11:08 PM Post #29 |
|
Grr
![]()
|
hmmm never bought a "mass load" of wood. So in theory $125 of wood (at that mass) would get me 83 trips to work or about 10,000 miles. hmmm so $500 in wood would drive me a years worth of driving. thats pretty darned cheap. Might have to give this some serious thought. |
![]() |
|
| Woodie | Aug 16 2011, 05:37 AM Post #30 |
![]()
|
Your imaginary car is way past impossible at this time. Nissan just raised the price of the Leaf (75 miles in good weather, 40 when it is cold) to over $35,000 and it's widely believed that they're losing money to gain PR. I always drive at least 100 miles per day, twice a week or so, over 200 miles, and no way to predict which day is coming. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The Geo Metro Lounge · Next Topic » |


Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.





3:34 AM Jul 11