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won't start when hot
Topic Started: Aug 31 2011, 09:09 AM (4,686 Views)
Memphis metro


Key on engine off-- fuel pressure 23psi to 31psi (just turn the switch on but do not crank)

Engine running at idle--13psi to 20psi

Injectors just do not normally fail. Not to say they cannot just to say its rare. They do become dirty and clogged and have restricted spray patterns especially with all these wonderful fuel grades we have today.

You can measure resistance of your fuel injector across the terminals and the numbers should be .5 to 1.5 ohms. If not then you can suspect a faulty injector.
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Woodie
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Fuel injector often fails, in this exact manner. They'll start out by cutting out at random times, then inexplicably starting back up and working fine. It gets more and more common until it won't run at all.
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Memphis metro


Here we have two conflicting views. Which one do you believe? Now your injector may be bad and then again it may not be. Electric fuel pumps are common to fail over many years and can cause symptoms as such as you described as well as other symptoms. Here again, your fuel pump may be bad as well or it may not be. With 60 Psi pressure I would lean more towards not. I am speaking here about the comment I made (injectors do not normally fail. It is rare.) Is it often? Or is it rare for injectors to fail? You decide.


Interesting reading here, read the first paragraph.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/car-part-longevity/fuel-injectors-last.htm

and here,

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4554.htm

(of course bosch does not want you to clean them. They make money when you buy another one. But you can see from their website its about contamination)


You see its not the injector that fails, its contamination within the injector. This does not make the injector bad or defective. It makes it ineffective. This contamination can be cleaned and cost a lot less than the cost of another injector of which you do not need anyway most likely because the injector itself is good. It only needs cleaning.

Here is how I cleaned mine,

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4247660/3/#new
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Tim Keith


I checked the compression with a new Harbor Freight gauge. It read 120 lbs on each cylinder.
My other high mileage Metro was about 30 lbs higher. Could these low readings be from a blown
head gasket?

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Tim Keith


I replaced the cap and rotor. The idle is now smooth. After replacing the water pump there is no
coolant leak that I can see. Hopefully this is resolved, or good enough for now. I sure hope that
I did not overheat the motor. The 120 lbs compression reading might not be correct. Usually on
a worn G10 there is oil in the bottom of the air cleaner but this one is dry. I have two other
Metros that also need some work. I have a JDM G10 that is unused and a machined G10 ready to
assemble.

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Tim Keith


It won't start.

The spark plug gap was incorrect as the Champion RN12YC plugs are set at .055", set the gap at .042 did not
make a difference.
Edited by Tim Keith, Sep 5 2011, 04:55 AM.
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Woodie
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120 is stone worn out, I suspect you didn't do it right. Factory spec is 200 new, 155 minimum. Engine warm, all plugs out, throttle wide open, four or five cranks. Usually a worn out engine will be very hard to start cold, but will run fine and start when hot.

When the engine will not start, look down the throttle body with a flashlight while someone is cranking it over. You should be able to see a nice, conical spray of fuel mist coming out of the injector.
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Tim Keith


I am guessing that when the water pump failed it burned the exhaust valves. This motor started and
ran great, climbed hills in 5th and got 51 MPG until this water pump incident. It has 132,000 miles. I
changed the oil each 2 or 3 weeks over the 25,000 miles that I have owned it ( since January 2001).
I drove this car 1,000 miles each week. I've done 2 previous G10 valve jobs, I may do this one too.

On the G10 if the temp gauge rises as the water level falls quickly, and you don't notice the high
reading, the sensor can then become dry and return a normal reading. This water pump was a
gusher. I feel bad about that as I always check the coolant and oil level each morning before
I hit the road. I'd like to have a temp gauge with an audible alarm.



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cgem
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Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Going back to square one, there is a thing called vapor lock that does this also. Also, cat. converters clog up on these cars. (mine was) Just a guess, but sounds like a ventilation hose/pipe is clogged ....if after sitting a while, it starts again.
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Woodie
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Tim Keith
Sep 1 2011, 09:07 AM
I think the timing belt jumped a tooth or two.



I am guessing that when the water pump failed it burned the exhaust valves.
You're going far afield and coming up with unreasonable scenarios. Water pump failures don't burn exhaust valves, driving the car 132K miles does. Water pump doesn't cause the timing belt to jump a tooth, and timing being off a tooth wont cause the car to be dead but start up just fine five minutes later. That is an electrical problem.
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Tim Keith


The water temp gauge was reading high since I got the car in January. The PO said the gauge was
always working that way. My other '96 Metro temp reading is about mid range. I think it may have
had a cooling issue. Not until recent weeks of 100F+ days did I have to add any water, and only a
small amount. The radiator always was full but the reservoir level dropped a little each day.

The timing belt was oily and slimy from antifreeze and oil. A greasy timing belt can cause a loose
belt to jump a tooth or two. The front seal was replaced shortly before I got this car. There is
not a lot of oil in the front of the motor, but the timing belt was greasy and wet. The T belt looked
okay as per wear but I replaced it as it felt like it was coated with Vasoline.

If the compression rises with a little oil in the cylinders I'll do a valve job. The motor was consistently
getting 51 MPG and did not use any oil. There is no oil in the bottom on the air cleaner as in my
340,000 mile '96 Metro.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

Fuel injector :+1
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Tim Keith


I cleaned the ground wire to the intake manifold but that wasn't the problem. I have two
spare throttle bodies ('96 and a '98). Any problem that is binary is usually electrical, which is
the root of most injector problems. This motor has a strong spark.

When I sprayed the motor of my other '96 Metro to clean the grime it never would run right after
it got wet. It could be that some water from the failed water pump got into a sensor. Water was
splashing from that pump leak on this "new" Metro. There is not much to check, but I sure
can't find it the issue. My concern is taking it to a mechanic who does not know these cars
will charge me lots to fix it (most think they are junk). A man who claimed to be a mechanic
stopped by and said that he could fix it by intuition. I think his skill is more like tuition to
college for his kid. I don't know how a mechanic could fix this without the shop manual.

This afternoon I dropped off a cylinder head with a machinist to have a valve job, but I needed
that head done anyway for another G10. I know that this G10 could benefit from a valve job, but
one thing at a time. It's not that hard to do a valve job on a G10, did two thus far, half a day if
you keep at it and don't break any of the old head bolts.


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Memphis metro


I am a bit confused now. What is the status of the car you originally posted this thread about? Is it running and you are driving it? If so what did you do to fix it? Or is it tore down getting a head job? I see where you put a water pump on it but after that, its all grey to me!
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Tim Keith


A mechanic is taking a look at it. The problem is likely the fuel injection or sensors.
I'll likely do a valve job regardless of what he finds wrong with it.
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