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87 Chevy Sprint Turbo; what a blast
Topic Started: Aug 31 2011, 09:22 PM (20,435 Views)
Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Thanks t3ragtop.
Rock auto had 'one remaining' ignition coil specified for turbo model only.
Nevertheless, I'll check resistance on it when it arrives.
I am curious about this little black box on the ignition coil bracket .
It has 2 wires.
One goes down below and has a spade connector to something.
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Parts from rockauto came today :)
Immediately opened the box and checked the resistance 1.7 Ohms :(
:fon called rock auto and talked to Daniel.
He listened to my plight and doublechecked their info...should be right part.
But, resistance was not in specs.
He's going to ask the warehouse to send me another...after making sure it's in turbo specs (1.0 - 1.3)
He said there was another one with specs of 0.8 - 1.5
I explained that 1.5 was too high.
Meanwhile, I had the go-ahead to try the one they sent me.
No luck....and no surprise...not even one spark from the coil ;)
Still getting the code 41...which is for the ignitor coil.
However, there were a few forum questions to clear up.
1. Check the yellow 20 amp fuse. It's good...even replaced it....still no start.
2. Check the resistance on the ignitor with knock control. 115.4 k Ohms.
It was checked with negative probe on battery negative terminal and
positive probe on the disconnected connector.
3. Check the pickup coil for loose wires....none found.
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4. When the center triangular spinner (green arrow) spins past the pink arrow...
one can hear a hiss and click....so, things are happening there.
5. The fuel pump....one can hear it hum when turning the key to on....before trying to start it.

All systems seem to be go, except the ignitor coil is not producing a spark.
Cranks nicely....just doesn't start.
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Memphis metro


No more out of range of resistance than that is on the new coil, it could be your multimeter or not quite a good connection. Now if the resistance specs showed quite a bit of differance I would say you have a defective part or wrong part. Because of the nature of measuring resistance, very minor differances usually does not matter. Look for major differances (several ohms) or OL readings, then you can suspect a defective part. I would check the resistance of the pickup coil at this point.
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

blue rhino
Jan 26 2012, 11:34 PM
No more out of range of resistance than that is on the new coil, it could be your multimeter or not quite a good connection.
Don't know how I could get a better reading than with a electrician's Fluke direct to brand new terminals.
If the specs say no higher than 1.32 when there's knock control, and I'm at 1.7, then I follow the FSM.
I don't know how to resolve this any faster than following the diagnostics step by step.

I'll be happy to check the pickup coil.

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Memphis metro


Follow the wires out of the distributor that come from the pickup coil and somewhere not far should be a plug to disconnect it. Check your resistance to it across those terminals.

Looking for 900-1100 ohms

When testing ohms, just the amount of pressure you are pressing down with the multimeter leads can change your meter display readings. Very sensitive.
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

Tomorrow.
I'm tired and hungry and it's subzero out there.
I have been out in the cold several times today, and I know when it's time to stop.
Edited by Jittney, Jan 27 2012, 12:14 AM.
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Wolf
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Doesn't seem like it would cause a no spark situation, but my 87 turbo has a centrifugal advance mechanism deeper inside the distributor. The posts where the springs attach are pathetically thin and brittle. When I got my turbo, one was snapped off and some internal mechanical damage had occurred. I was able to drill and tap a hole in the spinner plate and used a bolt+loctite to fabricate a new post. You might want to check the centrifugal spinner assembly and clean/lube it if your distributor has one - since they're hard to find replacements for.

If you need me to check any values/voltages etc on my turbo for for comparison purposes, I'd be happy to.
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Woodie
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I don't think the actual resistance reading matters one bit. It's going to be shorted - 0Ω, open - ∞Ω, or it's going to work.
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Memphis metro


Woodie
Jan 27 2012, 07:36 AM
I don't think the actual resistance reading matters one bit. It's going to be shorted - 0Ω, open - ∞Ω, or it's going to work.
What you just gave is a resistance reading that would show with a multimeter. If a value calls for 1-2 ohms of resistance and your reading shows 15 ohms, its pretty safe to say there is a problem. Now when you start breaking it down further like say the reading is 2.8 ohms and it called for 2 max, that is very little differance and with a handheld multimeter may not be very accurate. Measuring of ohms is of importance when dealing with electrical devices but like I said above you want to look for suffient differances in values before you condemn a part.

You can imagine resistance in this circumstance. Someone comes in with a car and his complaint is one of his headlights is bright and the other is not as bright but glows a dim orange. Now both headlights are working, its just they are not working as designed to work. There is a resistance problem to the dim lamp. The total amount of electricty is not making it to the bulb (whether ground or positive). And again, its like a nozzle on a water hose. You crank down on the nozzle and only so much water comes out but nevertheless it comes out. You open it up and the resistance is less and more water flow you have. An electrical componet may not function or function as it should if not within a close proximity of its designed resistance specifications.

Look at this guys posting,
http://geometroforum.com/topic/4667060/1/#new
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

I contacted rockauto again today.
They said the coil I had was out of spec....and they did not have another one to send.
They did have a more expensive model, but did not have testing available in the warehouse to test it before sending it up.
They are refunding the price of the coil and some of the shipping.
Meanwhile I contacted t3ragtop and he's sending up an original used coil.
I printed off a hardcopy of the 1987 turbo supplement for convenience.
Weather will hit 25 below at my house tonight....so I plan to stay inside and study the FSM.

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iBLKBRY
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Jittney
Jan 27 2012, 09:44 PM
I contacted rockauto again today.
They said the coil I had was out of spec....and they did not have another one to send.
They did have a more expensive model, but did not have testing available in the warehouse to test it before sending it up.
They are refunding the price of the coil and some of the shipping.
Meanwhile I contacted t3ragtop and he's sending up an original used coil.
I printed off a hardcopy of the 1987 turbo supplement for convenience.
Weather will hit 25 below at my house tonight....so I plan to stay inside and study the FSM.

I think you just mentioned the overall problem... 25 below. :(
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Wolf
Member
[ *  *  * ]
The coil on my Turbo measured 1.9 ohms (@ ~40F degrees) and it runs fine (has for years). I know resistance changes with the conductor's temperature, not sure if that could be a factor.

By the way, the little black box is the the radio noise suppressor. It runs from coil+ to ground but it shouldn't effect spark. Suzuki part# 33551-60a10 and was used on several other suzukis from that era.
Edited by Wolf, Jan 28 2012, 04:07 AM.
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iBLKBRY
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Jittney
Jan 22 2012, 08:40 PM
OK...new cap and rotor..no luck.
Grounded the negative terminal of the ignition coil to the frame. No luck.
I took the distributor cable off the ignition coil to watch.
It sparks at the beginning of trying to start and at the end.
This is a good clue. Are you loosing voltage to the coil during starter crank? Possible ignition switch malfunction?
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iBLKBRY
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clarkdw
Jan 22 2012, 07:40 PM
Jittney
Jan 22 2012, 06:55 PM
Fusible link from battery to positive terminal on the ignition coil does not work.
I seem to recall reading someplace that the ECU doesn't allow it.

Non fusible link from battery to BL/W on backside of ignition does not work (get a spark at the end, consistently)
Non fusible link from positive terminal of ignition coil to BL/W on backside of ignition does the same thing.

Wire on the ignition coil positive terminal is BL/W
Wire on the backside of the key cylinder is also BL/W
Resistance on the wire is 0.9....so the wire from the ignition to the coil is OK.

Going to pull the cap and rotor and see if NAPA has one.

The reason I suggested putting a jumper from the battery + to the ign coil was to check if there is a faulty contact or connection in the ign switch.

Going from the Bat+ to the coil checks the B/W wire from the switch through the fuse and all the related connections. It should also feed and light the turbo indicator light (#7). Electrically it is exactly the same as if the switch were working so the ECU cannot sense which way the power is being supplied.

Feeding power to the B/W wire on the back of the ign switch, had the other jumper worked, would check whether the problem was between the battery to the switch wiring, in which case the jumper would make it work OR between the switch to the coil wiring, in which case the new jumper to the switch B/W would not work.

I hope this helps a little as to why I suggested the quick checks. i do suspect that the rotor/cap will do the trick. That rotor looks :shit

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I concur. Have you accomplished this?
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iBLKBRY
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Jittney
Jan 22 2012, 05:54 PM
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Bottom view of the key cylinder.
The 'inside' part of the gray cylinder, which the key goes into, is a bit loose.
Bear in mind, the key no longer just goes in (yellow arrow) and one can turn it.
Rather, we have to pull the key out an eighth of and inch and press it towards the driver.
Then it can turn away...to the ON position and ultimately to START.
The 'door open' buzzer was intermittent and the key didn't turn, which I thought was significant.
When I would wiggle the blue and brown wire sets, the 'door open' buzzer would stay on.
But, it didn't make any difference to get the coil to spark.
However wiggling the wires on the back side (red arrow) did make some difference in getting it to spark more.
Still, not enough to be consistent...so as to start.
Here is the backside view.
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Looks like you may have been down the correct road here. There are several contacts on the switch that may be opening when you switch from start to ignition. Verify continuity through the switch at the coil when you turn the switch from ignition to start. DISCONNECT the battery when you do this so that you do not have to crank the engine.

Miami vacation plans when your done!
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