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Setting the timing; Static timing
Topic Started: Sep 17 2011, 09:27 PM (1,826 Views)
Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

Back in the day, I used to set my timing on cars statically. By that I mean, I would set the timing without the engine running. I would do this with a test light and a few wires and some alligator clips. Wire number one would be clipped to the +side of the battery and the other end of that wire to the center nipple of the distributor. Wire number 2 would be clipped to the #1 plug wire nipple and the other end of wire #2 would be grounded to the chassis. Wired in series to the #2 wire would be a small test light. I would then set the flywheel to the correct timing mark (whatever that may be) and then rotate the distributor until the light bulb came on. Voila, my timing was set. But that was on MUCH older cars with vacuum advance. I'm sure some of you know what I am talking about.

Now, my question is: could I not do this to the mighty metro? Is there some reason that statically timing the g-10 will not work?


Thanks!!!

Rob

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JellyBeanDriver


Can't really do that as there is no points that are opening - it's a magnetic pickup coil and reluctor and the trigger point is right when the tip of the reluctor is just passing the pole on the pickup coil. that's when the voltage out of the pickup coil changes direction.
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Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

I know there's no points in this engine. The procedure I described in the OP bypasses everything but the dist. cap and the rotor.
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JellyBeanDriver


I cannot see how your first post even works. Clipping a light through the battery to the center post of the distributor does nothing as there is no further path for the current to flow as the rotor does not touch anything else. You must mean that you clipped to the points terminal on the distributor, not the center terminal.

My post still is true - there is no switch IN the distributor. A waveform is generated by the pickup coil that the ECU then interprets and switches a transistor that drives the coil. ECU not powered, the reluctor NOT moving fast enough to generate a signal - no switching that can be picked up by a test light.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

JellyBeanDriver
Sep 17 2011, 11:30 PM
I cannot see how your first post even works. Clipping a light through the battery to the center post of the distributor does nothing as there is no further path for the current to flow as the rotor does not touch anything else. You must mean that you clipped to the points terminal on the distributor, not the center terminal.

My post still is true - there is no switch IN the distributor. A waveform is generated by the pickup coil that the ECU then interprets and switches a transistor that drives the coil. ECU not powered, the reluctor NOT moving fast enough to generate a signal - no switching that can be picked up by a test light.
Now I have no dog in this discussion, I just want to express my opinion on the way JellyBeanDriver stated his point.

It is my impression that 99% of the people using this site are just your average Joe's. When I read explanations like JBD's I am impressed beyond discription. He uses theory to back up his explanation, which is something I feel needs to be recognized. Truely, when one of the GMF Tech's uses such wordage, I am humbled.

Thank you, GMF Tech's, for standing up and using the knowledge you have gleened through the years.

A VERY impressive post from JBD.

Terry
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Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

JellyBeanDriver
Sep 17 2011, 11:30 PM
I cannot see how your first post even works. Clipping a light through the battery to the center post of the distributor does nothing as there is no further path for the current to flow as the rotor does not touch anything else. You must mean that you clipped to the points terminal on the distributor, not the center terminal.

My post still is true - there is no switch IN the distributor. A waveform is generated by the pickup coil that the ECU then interprets and switches a transistor that drives the coil. ECU not powered, the reluctor NOT moving fast enough to generate a signal - no switching that can be picked up by a test light.
Got it. Thanks! I wasn't thinking clearly. It was late, I was tired. My bad.

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Spock
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dayle1960
Sep 18 2011, 05:23 AM
JellyBeanDriver
Sep 17 2011, 11:30 PM
I cannot see how your first post even works. Clipping a light through the battery to the center post of the distributor does nothing as there is no further path for the current to flow as the rotor does not touch anything else. You must mean that you clipped to the points terminal on the distributor, not the center terminal.

My post still is true - there is no switch IN the distributor. A waveform is generated by the pickup coil that the ECU then interprets and switches a transistor that drives the coil. ECU not powered, the reluctor NOT moving fast enough to generate a signal - no switching that can be picked up by a test light.
Now I have no dog in this discussion, I just want to express my opinion on the way JellyBeanDriver stated his point.

It is my impression that 99% of the people using this site are just your average Joe's. When I read explanations like JBD's I am impressed beyond discription. He uses theory to back up his explanation, which is something I feel needs to be recognized. Truely, when one of the GMF Tech's uses such wordage, I am humbled.

Thank you, GMF Tech's, for standing up and using the knowledge you have gleened through the years.

A VERY impressive post from JBD.

Terry
Yes, Terry, There are a lot of really smart people on this site. I am very grateful for the collective knowledge I have access to here.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

However, just off the top of my head I would do it a little differently than MetroRob;
1) Rotate the engine to the compression stroke
2) Rotate the crank pulley to say 8o on the timing scale.
3) Loosen the distributor and you could unhook the coil wire at the coil and attach it to the positive battery post.

You now have current from the "coil" to the dist. cap and rotor.

4) Retard the distributor (CCW) and connect the #1 plug wire to a test light and ground the test light.
5) Now, as you rotate the Distributor clockwise, the rotor will contact the #1 post and the test light should come on.

I just tested the Geo Metro dist. rotor and I got a circuit through the rotor. So if the rotor is making contact with the center distributor post/tower ie coil wire, then current should flow to the curved brass piece to the #1 tower/plug wire. That is unless my DVOM and test light are lying to me? :-/
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Spock
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Bad Bent
Sep 18 2011, 01:24 PM
However, just off the top of my head I would do it a little differently than MetroRob;
1) Rotate the engine to the compression stroke
2) Rotate the crank pulley to say 8o on the timing scale.
3) Loosen the distributor and you could unhook the coil wire at the coil and attach it to the positive battery post.

You now have current from the "coil" to the dist. cap and rotor.

4) Retard the distributor (CCW) and connect the #1 plug wire to a test light and ground the test light.
5) Now, as you rotate the Distributor clockwise, the rotor will contact the #1 post and the test light should come on.

I just tested the Geo Metro dist. rotor and I got a circuit through the rotor. So if the rotor is making contact with the center distributor post/tower ie coil wire, then current should flow to the curved brass piece to the #1 tower/plug wire. That is unless my DVOM and test light are lying to me? :-/
Hey BB, I am not following you.

Aside from using the Spark Plug wire as a connection from the positive battery post to the center tower/nipple of the distributor cap, how is your method different than mine?

You say you just tried this? do you have any pictures?

Thanks!!!!

----Rob
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

I mis read your post, my bad. :die I thought you were rotating the crank to the timing mark and then the light would come on.

I did not do it. But, and I probably totally misread the argument, there is continuity between the center of the rotor and the arcing brass piece.

So, granted you set the crank pulley at 8 BTDC then you can get continuity through the center tower/post of the distributor and the rotor to the #1 plug wire and time it without a gun as you described.

Might want to give it a try? :-/

I might but my priority today is to get motivated and lower the front spring 1/2 round. I need to get off here and do something. :tumbleweed
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Spock
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Live Long and Prosper.

Bad Bent
Sep 18 2011, 02:37 PM
I mis read your post, my bad. :die I thought you were rotating the crank to the timing mark and then the light would come on.

I did not do it. But, and I probably totally misread the argument, there is continuity between the center of the rotor and the arcing brass piece.

The word is 'discussion' my friend, not 'argument'. There ain't nothin' in this whole world worth arguing about, over the internet, with folks I have never met before. :D :cheers :thumb

But anyway, thanks for your insight! I think I am gonna give this thing a try. It seems like there are a few conflicting opinions. I guess there is only one way to find out! Like you, I have lots of more pressing things going on today but if anyone else wants to give it a whirl and post back, I would be REALLY interested to hear the results.


Thanks again!

---Rob
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:D I remember using this static timing proceedure on VW beetles, back in the day. And, to this day, that's the way we set the magneto timing on piston powered aircraft, more or less.
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JellyBeanDriver


Just a followup - I have done MetroRob's technique on point ignition systems, both VW's and V8's. Just need to put the crank where you want it timing wise, then turn the distributor body the opposite direction from the rotor's rotation until a test light between the points terminal and ground lights up signifying the points just opened. You could also put a light across the coil's terminal and do the same thing but the light would go out when the points opened up instead.

This technique may likely work too with a simple electronic ignition setup using a hall effect distributor if you put a test light across the coil.

FWIW, I love those 4 terminal GM ignition modules. I've converted several point distributors to electronic ignition using a Chrysler pickup coil and reluctor driving a 4 terminal GM ignition module on a heat sink. Also replaced an RX7's ignitor box and my 82' Datsun's 2-plug per cylinder ignition controller with the GM modules. I think Nissan wanted $280 for an ignition module and the GM 4 terminal was $15. This was back in the day that you could buy them at K-mart.
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, Sep 18 2011, 06:11 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

MetroRob
Sep 18 2011, 04:46 PM
The word is 'discussion' my friend, not 'argument'. There ain't nothin' in this whole world worth arguing about, over the internet, with folks I have never met before. :D :cheers :thumb
I agree. :thumb
I differentiate between making an argument and arguing. A problem with modern English language usage. The choices are 5:1 on it's meaning. I crossed out the one I was not using.

Merriam-Webster:
1. obsolete : an outward sign : indication
2. a : a reason given in proof or rebuttal b : discourse intended to persuade
3. a : the act or process of arguing : argumentation b : a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion c : quarrel, disagreement
4. : an abstract or summary especially of a literary work <an argument preceded the poem>
5. : the subject matter especially of a literary work
6. a : one of the independent variables upon whose value that of a function depends b : a substantive (as the direct object of a transitive verb) that is required by a predicate in grammar
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

JellyBeanDriver
Sep 18 2011, 06:11 PM
Just a followup - I have done MetroRob's technique on point ignition systems, both VW's and V8's. Just need to put the crank where you want it timing wise, then turn the distributor body the opposite direction from the rotor's rotation until a test light between the points terminal and ground lights up signifying the points just opened. You could also put a light across the coil's terminal and do the same thing but the light would go out when the points opened up instead.

This technique may likely work too with a simple electronic ignition setup using a hall effect distributor if you put a test light across the coil.

FWIW, I love those 4 terminal GM ignition modules. I've converted several point distributors to electronic ignition using a Chrysler pickup coil and reluctor driving a 4 terminal GM ignition module on a heat sink. Also replaced an RX7's ignitor box and my 82' Datsun's 2-plug per cylinder ignition controller with the GM modules. I think Nissan wanted $280 for an ignition module and the GM 4 terminal was $15. This was back in the day that you could buy them at K-mart.
Is it me, or is this guy really, really smart. Good work JBD. I'm proud of you. Thanks.
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