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Questions on engine rebuilt.
Topic Started: Nov 30 2011, 09:04 PM (1,522 Views)
mrcansian
New Member
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Hi everyone, i have a 2001 chevy metro with 145.000 miles, the car was smoking a little and also have some engine noises ( sounds like valves knocking or loose rocker arm) , so i decided to tear the engine apart , I removed the cylinder head and know i got questions after all my reading on this forum.

I found 1 rocker arm spring broken on the intake side and the rocker arm was completely loose, just seat on place.

My first question is where I'll find this spring?
The valves do not look to bad, I'm planing to do the job myself, take all the valves out, clean , instal new guides only and valve seals.
Should I buy new valves or can I reuse the same old ones?

I called the machine shop and the guy told me he would charge $ 225.00 for the complete valve job, and he told he could cut or (grind) the old valves if they are good. What should I do?

I also put kerosene on the all 4 cylinders ( as posted by Jonny Mullet Guide), If the rings are bad how fast should the kerosene go down?
Because i put it like 11:00 pm and checked the other day in the morning, the 4 cylinder were empty in the morning.
Do you think the piston rings are bad too?

I'm waiting on answers to start the job, thank you. :-/

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allmountain40
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Yes you can regrind/reuse valves. you can get a spring from a junkyard, or search the internet/ebay. But, these are usually sold in sets, so if you only want one you have to go to junkyard. exactly how long did it take for the kerosene to drain? It will eventually drain past good rings if you let it sit long enough, but if your head was off when you did it, it will evaporate also if left long enough. You will see different opinions on here about total rebuild versus just doing the head, but here is my two cents. If you've got it torn down, you might as well do it right and do a complete rebuild. In my experienc of 30 years of building everything from metros to full race hemi's, an old tired bottom end will not hold up long to the compression boost of a head job. Time and time again I have seen people only do a valve job and then weeks or even months later have to tear it back down and do the rings. Inevitably somebody will come on here and say they only did a valve job and they have driven 100,000 miles since with no problems. Personally, I throw the B.S. :shit flag on that, but if it is true they are the exception, not the rule. Its your engine, do what you want, but personally, if I'm going to do something I do it right so I only have to do it once. $225 is a decent price for a head job. Good luck. :thumb
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Scoobs
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:D

oww, 225 hurts :P lol i got my 3 cyl head done here locally.. well a few towns over for 50 bucks, plus parts. bringing the total to i think 75, but ialso got a gasket set with it for annother 45 so i broke myself with it lmao. But yea, prices depend on the region realy.
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billy508
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billy508

Quote from Allmountain40 an old tired bottom end will not hold up long to the compression boost of a head job I totally agree. I think I paid close to 225 for the machine shop to do my cylinder head. Good work dosent come cheap. :banana :banana :banana
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crankcase


Yea I would have to agree with the posts above. Been there, done that (slow learner). It is good to plan on doing it at the same time as the head or soon after.

Don't know about the 2001, but on the older style you can do the rings/bearings through the oil pan. This is nice if you are short on $ and need to do it later, but it's nice to do it while the head is off for a better clean up and easier access ect.

I'm probably going to get poo-pooed on this, but I skipped the honeing on my last ring job and it has caused no problems that I'm aware of in the last 3 years (about 80k). I've read reports that it may not be necessary on modern motors, but I probably won't do it in the future because it is not common practice (rings sticking?). The cylinder walls on a Metro are tough; I've never seen or heard of a ridge ring forming on on any G10 motor.
Edited by crankcase, Nov 30 2011, 10:14 PM.
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mrcansian
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I was thinking for $ 225.00, I could buy all new parts and to it myself, the only thing i can not do is grind the button of the block and compression test the head.

But i think i don't need to grind the button ( it looks good).

Or can I just clean and reuse the same valves with out grinding it and just change the valve guides and seals?


Thank You.
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wayn
Really fresh fish
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For the leakdown test i would watch it for the first 5 minutes and then every 10 minutes after.

Bad rings can drain out in just a few minutes.

Once you have the results, post them here, and then put in new rings anyways.
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mrcansian
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Also the thread for the cylinder 2 is stripped, I don't know how the spark plug came loose and damaged the thread, you think the heli-coil will work good for a long time or I really should bring to a machine shop to fix the thread too?
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Woodie
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$225 isn't bad at all, remember guys, there are 16 valves in there. Add a little to get that sparkplug hole fixed and mill the gasket surface. Don't be surprised if he calls you back and says he wants to replace the exhaust valves or the valve guides.

Definitely put rings in it as long as you have it apart.
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clarkdw


mrcansian
Nov 30 2011, 10:18 PM
I was thinking for $ 225.00, I could buy all new parts and to it myself, the only thing i can not do is grind the button of the block and compression test the head.

But i think i don't need to grind the button ( it looks good).

Or can I just clean and reuse the same valves with out grinding it and just change the valve guides and seals?


Thank You.
Changing the valve guides without regrinding the valve seats will likely cause you a great deal of grief. The valve guides should be reamed to correct fit on the valve stems and then the valve seats in the head need to be ground so they are exactly concentric with the new guides. Otherwise even lapping in the valves to a non-concentric seat won't get it to seal properly.
$225 for a rebuild of a 16 valve head is a very reasonable price if done correctly.

The machine shop will helicoil the sparkplug hole. It will stand up fine.
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mrcansian
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If I change all the 16 valves and valves guides and seals do I still need to grind the valve seat on the head?
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clarkdw


mrcansian
Dec 2 2011, 01:46 PM
If I change all the 16 valves and valves guides and seals do I still need to grind the valve seat on the head?
Anytime you change any valve guide it should have the valve seat reground. When you install the new guide it can be slightly out of concentric with the seat so that the valve does not hit the seat all the way around. You may be lucky enough that you can get away with manually lapping the valve in to the seat but don't count on it.
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mrcansian
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So basically this is a job for a machine shop , because I heard of people doing these by themselves, I never did these before and I'm just trying to save some money, maybe the best deal is leave this to the machine shop or I can end up doing something wrong and have more problems later.

I just don't understand how people do it at home with out grinding the valve seat on the head. How difficult is it ?
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Old Man


spend a few $$s now and save a LOT of $$s later
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clarkdw


mrcansian
Dec 2 2011, 03:52 PM
So basically this is a job for a machine shop , because I heard of people doing these by themselves, I never did these before and I'm just trying to save some money, maybe the best deal is leave this to the machine shop or I can end up doing something wrong and have more problems later.

I just don't understand how people do it at home with out grinding the valve seat on the head. How difficult is it ?
If you don't replace the guides you can do it but they are usually worn out.
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