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Kat's 1500 Watt Circulating Heater Installation; Kat's P/N 13150 - The Geo Glenn Way
Topic Started: Jan 1 2012, 01:59 PM (4,608 Views)
Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

I have read a few post and topics on engine coolant heater installations. I actually have a Kat's 14400 installed on my 1996 LSI 4 cylinder. I wanted something that worked very well. Thanks to Bad Bent for the consultation and direction given on this installation, although not exactly a Bad Bent textbook installation, the inspiration and guidance was extremely valuable. :cheers

I also read the cooling system section in my 1990 Factory Service Manual to get a more clear understanding of the engine coolant circulation. :news

The engine coolant circulates from the water pump through the cylinder head and into the thermostat housing. From the thermostat housing, it then flows into the intake manifold. From the intake manifold, it goes into the heater core, out of the heater core, and into a black metal tube on the back side of the engine. This black metal tube leads to the back of the water pump, and the circulation system is complete. :'(

The black metal tube also collects engine coolant from the lower radiator outlet that has been cooled once the thermostat opens. Coolant from the thermostat, once open, enters the radiator through the upper radiator hose. :ermm:

I chose a Kat's Model 13150. It's a 1500 Watt, 120 Volt coolant heater rated at 12.5 Amps that's designed to heat 26 to 40 quarts of coolant. The Geo Metro has about a 4 quart system. ^o)

I modified the P/N 28112 Mounting Bracket by drilling two 7/16" holes so that it would mount on the left side transmission mount lower bolts.

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I used a 6mm bolt and nut, and a couple of bushings from an old timing cover to secure the bracket to the heater.

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The best placement of the inlet for the heated coolant is prior to the intake manifold. I purchased a Kat's P/N 28111 adapter. This adapter has a 5/8" inlet for the heatet coolant, and a 1/2" - 5/8" connection for the through flow.

Someone had posted that the heater hoses on the Geo Metro are 1/2". This is not true. They are 14mm, or 9/16". Good luck finding 14mm heater hose. Kat's also has very loose control over tolerances. Any size proclaimed by Kat's should have the suffix "ish".

I thought the 28111 adapter, being 1/2" ish would fit nicely in the hose between the thermostat housing and the intake manifold. Wrong. So, let the modification begin.

This is the 28111 adapter right out of the package.

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This is the 28111 adapter after I got through with it.

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I used a belt sander and hand sanding with 150 grit wet dry. I also slightly sanded the sharp edge on the sealing bead.

The heated coolant inlet face was increased to 39/64".

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The through hose beaded ends were reduced to 15.5 mm to 15.9 mm.

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I had to remove 25 mm of hose for this installation. Actually, as a side note, the hose from the thermostat housing to the intake manifold is no longer available from GM. O'Reilly Auto Parts has a cut to fit hose, although they describe it as a 1/2" hose. My hose was soft and swelling under pressure, so it got replaced with a good used hose. I suspect that it was an aftermarket hose. It did not have the look of the OEM hose, and there were no OEM markings on the hose.

It fits nicely just to the rear of the thermostat housing. I left 55 mm of hose between the thermostat housing and the 28111 adapter. Yes, the inlet is pointing forward. Remember, the heating unit is mounted in front of the engine on the transmission mount.

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The Kat's circulating heaters need an inlet source that is lower than the outlet. There is no electric motor in this heater. The circulation is caused by convection.

I got another accessory. The P/N 28113 Lower Radiator Hose Connection. It's a 1" through flow connector with what Kat's alludes to is a 5/8" outlet. They don't say what size the outlet is in their catalog. They show an illustration with this adapter in the lower radiator hose that leads to the inlet of a circulating heater. It actually has a 3/4" outlet, which is a really tight fit on a 5/8" heater hose. I had to run hot water over the end of the hose to get it to install. I saw a little drip of Toyota Pink coolant coming from this area after having the heater plugged in overnight. I think this OEM style clamp is going to get replaced with a worm clamp. The radiator hose size on the Geo Metro is 28 mm. 28 mm = 1 1/8". The next larger size available is 1 1/4". This has proven to be a tighter fit. The 1" adapter will seal very well with worm style hose clamps.

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EDIT: Bottom line is that installing a 5/8" hose on the 28113 Lower Radiator Hose Connection sucks. I was helping the Nephew work on his 1991 Jeep Cherokee. As it turns out, he needed a replacement hose. It just happened to have a 3/4" connection on one end, and the rest of the hose was 5/8".

This hose was found the old fashioned way. At Auto Zone, at the hose rack, looking for the one that would work. Here it is. Dayco P/N E87610. $10.99. It also cross references to a Gates P/N 18077. It's 33" long, so some trimming is going to be required.

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I installed the 28113 coolant heater inlet adapter in the lower radiator hose under the battery box. The instruction sheet that came with the adapter says to remove 1" of hose. I did not. I cut the hose, and installed the adapter.

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Sure enough, there's the leak.

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I routed a 5/8" heater hose from the 28113 under the transmission mount to the now mounted 13150 heater. The heater outlet hose is routed over the clutch fork lever to the 28111 adapter in the hose just aft of the thermostat housing.

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I used nylon cable ties to attach the heater power cord to the radiator fan shroud.

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A few more nylon cable ties to the AC hose, and a cushioned clamp finish the power cord installation.

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How does it work? Great!

I plugged in the heater overnight. The temperature gauge is at 1/4. I turned the heat to hot and the fan to high. Nice warm air. I started the engine and took a short drive. The heater put out nice warm air. It did not cool off. I was up to normal operating temperature in 2 blocks.

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I bought a 6' package of 5/8" hose. The auto parts store was out of bulk reel stock. I used 2'4".

Enjoy!

*****

EDIT: Stone cold heating performance.

OAT = 29F

After 40 minutes.

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After 1 hour. The heater blew warm air. Nice . . . :wub:

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I got everything from http://www.woodys-auto-supply.com/

Total, including a 100 Watt oil pan heater was $89.48

KAT-28113 KAT'S HEATERS 28113 ACCESSORY - IN STOCK
Fulfillment Center: Seattle WA
List: $10.43 Retail: $7.92 Woody's Price: $5.10

KAT-28111 KAT'S HEATERS 28111 ACCESSORY - IN STOCK
Fulfillment Center: Seattle WA
List: $9.90 Retail: $7.51 Woody's Price: $4.85

KAT-13150 KAT'S HEATERS 13150 CIRCULATING TANK - IN STOCK
Fulfillment Center: Seattle WA
List: $86.20 Retail: $65.43 Woody's Price: $42.19

KAT-24100 KAT'S HEATERS 24100 SILICONE HEAT PA - IN STOCK
Fulfillment Center: Seattle WA
List: $40.63 Retail: $30.84 Woody's Price: $19.89

Retail Total: $111.70
Woody's Discounts: $39.67
Woody's Total: $72.03
Total Core Deposits: $0.00
Total Order Price: $72.03
Shipping & Handling: $13.95
Special Order Fee: $3.50
Order Grand Total: $89.48
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Way


Nice!
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nerys
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Grr

overnight is a LOT of electricity at 12.5 amps. whats the shortest time it takes to heat the thing up? I bet it does it in under an hour at 12.5 amps.
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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

nerys
Jan 1 2012, 03:47 PM
overnight is a LOT of electricity at 12.5 amps. whats the shortest time it takes to heat the thing up? I bet it does it in under an hour at 12.5 amps.
I just replaced the hose clamp at the leaking hose. I'll find out how hot it is in an hour.
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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

Geo Glenn
Jan 1 2012, 04:31 PM
nerys
Jan 1 2012, 03:47 PM
overnight is a LOT of electricity at 12.5 amps. whats the shortest time it takes to heat the thing up? I bet it does it in under an hour at 12.5 amps.
I just replaced the hose clamp at the leaking hose. I'll find out how hot it is in an hour.
Well, not really a test from dead cold to hot. I was running the engine and service the coolant level. However, after 30 minutes of being plugged in, the temperature gauge indicates mid-range, and the radiator fan kicked on when I turned on the key.

I think I'm going to like this! :wub:

I'll get the stone cold to hot time later . . . :coffee
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bogs
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Duct tape heals all wounds

Another excellent write up and bookmark, thanks GG :thumb
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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

Edited Post #1 with pictures of stone cold performance at 40 and 60 minutes.

Thanks, Way!

Nerys, you were right! ^o)

Thanks, Bogs!
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nerys
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Grr

Now get yourself a nice heavy duty wireless switch (radioshack used to sell one that handled 1500watts) an hour before you go out hit the switch.

will save you a TON of cash! really. about $1.90 PER NIGHT (assuming overnight is 10 hours so you are saving 9 hours) it costs about 21 cents per hour to run that thing :-)
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Way


Might be better to use a timer. :hmm

I am not a morning person and plus am forgetful. It's much easier to plug in the night before and not have to worry about it when I'm dragging myself out of Posted Image
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captain1.0


Glen your the katz!
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rmcelwee
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I'd like to run that thing on my kill-a-watt and see how much power ($$$) it is actually using.

What was your cost for the project? I know you will never recoup the money in fuel savings but comfort is something you can't put a price on. Here in SC you don't have to worry about cold mornings very often BUT I am going to be doing a permanent radiator block this week (temps are going to drop down to 24 degrees this week - I could have ran with my top down no problem today, it was beautiful).
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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

Thanks for the calculations, Nerys. I'm sure the thing cycles on and off due to thermostatic control. I'm not going to sit outside freezing my arse off to figure it out, though. Knowing the cost for project plug operating cost would prove out the frugality of the project.

Way, I know there are timers out there. I'm more of a junkyard/auto parts store kind of guy. One of my airplane customers got a timer at Lowes for his oil sump heater. Set it and forget it. 7 day programmable for about $25.

Doc. Meow! :D

rmcelwee, for me, it's more of a creature comfort driven motive. I was born and raised in Southern Louisiana. In 45 years, I have never gotten used to the bone chilling cold winters North of the Mason-Dixon line. I really wasn't keeping track of costs, although I will say that it's less than $100 all said and done. I found a hose that has a 3/4" connector on one end and 5/8" on the other end. Another $12, and I'm still going to be under a hundred. I have a sensor tricker project that I'm working on. I already have the inlet air temp sensor bypassed with a fixed resistor. The ECM thinks the engine inlet air is 138 F. As soon as I get the whole air temp/coolant temp bypass system developed, wired and tested, the grill block and snorkel removal will become a thing of the past for fuel economy improvement. Grill blockage will still have aerodynamic benefits.


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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

Edited Post #1. Added text and pictures.

"EDIT: Bottom line is that installing a 5/8" hose on the 28113 Lower Radiator Hose Connection sucks. I was helping the Nephew work on his 1991 Jeep Cherokee. As it turns out, he needed a replacement hose. It just happened to have a 3/4" connection on one end, and the rest of the hose was 5/8".

This hose was found the old fashioned way. At Auto Zone, at the hose rack, looking for the one that would work. Here it is. Dayco P/N E87610. $10.99. It also cross references to a Gates P/N 18077. It's 33" long, so some trimming is going to be required."

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Tofuball
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Strange Mechanic

Nice setup. I've only got the 850W unit.

This is the timer I use: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-HB800RCL-Seven-Outdoor-Digital/dp/B001KBZUNK/

Sometimes places will have it on sale cheaper.
Edited by Tofuball, Jan 3 2012, 08:27 AM.
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Geo Glenn
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What's in your engine?

Edited Post #1 with source and pricing information.

Total, including a 100 Watt oil pan heater was $89.48

This total does not include heater hoses.
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