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| I don't want to start a debate, BUT...; New car mileage rant | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 29 2011, 02:40 AM (2,362 Views) | |
| mjspiess | Jan 4 2012, 10:48 PM Post #16 |
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2012 Chevy Spark 1.2L 5 speed with 3.9 final drive estimated to be sold for ~$10,500
Wrong, you can get one without a turbo. They also have a 1.8L NA available with a 5 speed manual or 6 speed automatic. I already showed you both the Sonic & Cruze can do better than the EPA rating of 35 & 40 mpg highway. The 1.8L 5 speed is rated 35 mpg highway, while the 1.4T 6 speed manual is rated 40 mpg highway. |
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| Woodie | Jan 5 2012, 07:37 AM Post #17 |
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If you think that the decision makers at GM make these choices so that their buddies at the fuel companies can make more money and the government can take in more taxes, you may want to step back and re-evaluate the evidence. It's all driven by greed, yes, but not in some great cabal that is bent on screwing the members of GeoMetroForum, every individual company (individual for that matter) if motivated by their specific greed, most at cross purposes. If any one company could massage a couple of options and get ten mpg more AND have enough consumers wanting it to make it profitable, they'd have it on the market in six months. The fact of the matter is, the consumer doesn't care, gas is as cheap as hell in this country. The Metro sold well for the first couple of years, but sales went down every year until they gave up on it in 2000. The economy did well in the 90's while gas prices stayed pretty stable, and there was no need for high mileage cars, demand went down. Plus they never made any money on it in the first place, it was sold at a loss in order to skew the CAFE numbers downward so that they could sell more Corvettes and Cadillacs, where the money is. One more thing, no point comparing anything to a Metro as it's a car that is three generations illegal. Here's a paragraph I happened across while reading up on the Chevy Spark: All of that worthless crap is mandated by your government, and that is by no means all of it. I'll bet there are pages of little mandates in the same vein. Thank DC very much
Edited by bogs, Jan 7 2012, 12:27 AM.
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| lafter | Jan 5 2012, 10:02 AM Post #18 |
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In america when every other car is much larger then the metro ... it is unsafe. |
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| lafter | Jan 5 2012, 10:03 AM Post #19 |
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I think your spot on with this. |
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| nerys | Jan 5 2012, 02:44 PM Post #20 |
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Grr
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metrorob feel free to start a thread with your question. I will do my best to answer as best I can. ------------------------------- There is no 2012 spark does not exist best I can tell. looks like they scrubbed it and pushed it to 2013 with a late summer 2012 release. and its saying under $12k now which likely means $11.9K it also DOES NOT list fuel economy anywhere I could find. the best I could find is "It is mated to a standard five-speed manual transmission for competitive city and highway fuel economy. A four-speed automatic transmission will also be available." How much you want to bet its going to be right around 40mpg? want to bet your metro on that? I bet its no where near 50mpg. I think it would be VERY optimistic to say 45mpg even. 40mpg sounds about right for "competitive" since nothing right now gets more than 40mpg so 40mpg is "competitive" OH and its 2400 pounds so my 1987 Camry comparison is still rather poignant. Edited by bogs, Jan 7 2012, 12:30 AM.
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| mjspiess | Jan 5 2012, 03:32 PM Post #21 |
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You can't compare your Metro driven at 50 mph to a Sonic or Cruze driven at 70 mph & expect the same gas mileage. If there was a way to accurately convert the new EPA numbers to old, everyone would be delighted with those numbers because all of a sudden we'd have a much larger selection of vehicles capable of breaking 50 mpg. Drive your Metro 70 mph for the next 3 tanks & see what happens. Guess what, it's prob. right on par with the new EPA estimation. Drive new cars at old EPA standards. Guess what, their gas mileage is going to be much better. Edited by bogs, Jan 7 2012, 12:32 AM.
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| lafter | Jan 5 2012, 03:36 PM Post #22 |
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I'm going to have to give this round to mjspiess Edited by lafter, Jan 5 2012, 03:37 PM.
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| nerys | Jan 6 2012, 03:48 AM Post #23 |
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Grr
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Of the FIVE TEST RUNS they make for the cars ONLY THE HIGH SPEED test even goes past 60mph Trip Type Low speeds in stop-and-go urban traffic Free-flow traffic at highway speeds Higher speeds; harder acceleration & braking AC use under hot ambient conditions City test w/ colder outside temperature Top Speed 56 mph 60 mph 80 mph 54.8 mph 56 mph I compared it to one of the most popular common cars of all time, a Toyota Camry. still made today. with a 2 liter 4cyl engine. Edited by bogs, Jan 7 2012, 12:35 AM.
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| Cobrajet25 | Jan 6 2012, 08:37 AM Post #24 |
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I remember reading somewhere that GM lost money on every Metro they made. They only produced them to keep their CAFE numbers favorable. CAFE...Corporate Average Fuel Economy...is the average MPG of all models a manufacturer produces. It has to be over a certain MPG, or the government socks them. By making Metros (and losing, say, $800 on each of them) they got their CAFE numbers up enough that they could produce as many Tahoes and Suburbans as they wanted (with a $5000+ profit on each of them). Simple. "They"...whomever that is...did not decide to stop producing the Metro because it ceased to be profitable. Truth be told, it NEVER was profitable to make a Metro. "They" replaced it with a crappy, cheaper car made in Korea (the Daewoo-made Aveo) that still kept their CAFE numbers down. And it was likely a car they broke even on, or perhaps they even eeked out a small profit. And "they" kept selling Tahoes and Suburbans to people who didn't care about spending $35 to fill one up at $1.40 a gallon. Nobody "killed" the Metro. There is no grand conspiracy against high-MPG cars amongst auto manufacturers or oil companies. Need evidence? I give you the PRIUS. But the "all motor", low cost, high-MPG car is dead. The reason? Physics. The US government simply will not allow the sale of a 1600 pound car anymore. Ask any automotive engineer what the most important factor in fuel economy is. They will nearly all have the same answer. "WEIGHT" Edited by Cobrajet25, Jan 6 2012, 08:47 AM.
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| lafter | Jan 6 2012, 09:26 AM Post #25 |
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10 yard penalty - bad form 5 yard penalty - cursing 5 yard penalty - obvious anger 15 yard penalty - personal attacks Edited by bogs, Jan 7 2012, 12:37 AM.
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| bogs | Jan 7 2012, 12:48 AM Post #26 |
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Duct tape heals all wounds
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After some discussion, this thread was split off and heavily edited and is being reposted. You are welcome to continue it here, but PLEASE respect other members! Insulting another person or being disrespectful on this site for any reason will not be tolerated. PLAY BALL !! |
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| Coche Blanco | Jan 7 2012, 02:12 AM Post #27 |
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Troll Certified
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I think you're missing some physics Nerys. |
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| JoeBob | Jan 7 2012, 02:34 AM Post #28 |
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Why you Mutt!
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I have to agree with Nerys on at least one thing...I have one person who is very close to me who weighs over 350 lbs, and another who weighs around 250. I have carried both of them in the Metro, and, strange as it may seem, I've noticed NO difference in mileage compared to driving my myself! I did, however, notice a slight difference in acceleration. As far as new car mileage...if you optimized a modern car for maximum fuel economy, you would probably get better mileage than the Geo, but about the same power. Mileage doesn't sell as well as power. A little comparison...there is a hill I drive every day...8% grade. Slows the Geo down to about 45 mph. Rented a Chevy Aveo a couple months ago...it climbed the same hill at 60 mph without breathing hard at all! |
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| Horn | Jan 7 2012, 03:23 AM Post #29 |
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Nerys you do know mjspiess better half is vp of gm....and I could care less if new cars get 40, 50, or 60 mpg...i wont buy any of them. |
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| Woodie | Jan 7 2012, 05:35 AM Post #30 |
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She's in charge of turning down the gas mileage knob when nerys walks up to the showroom doors. |
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