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Joe Paterno
Topic Started: Jan 22 2012, 07:30 PM (1,972 Views)
Wobblybob


I went to Penn State back in the 60's so I'm a little biased here, (not a football fanatic though), but I think some of you are being a little too tough on Paterno.

Keep this in mind: He did report it to the head of the campus security almost immediately. That sounds lame (like reporting it to a rent-a-cop) but Penn State, with 44,000 students plus thousands of faculty and other employees, is like a small city by itself. Campus Security is the "police". They have all the authority and perform all the functions of any local police force and reporting this incident to them was, in fact, reporting it to the "authorities".

No, he didn't do as much as he should have. Like he said himself, he never had to deal with this kind of situation before and didn't really know what to do. So he passed it on to those who are supposed to know what to do. He admitted that he wished he had followed up better. (In effect, should have policed the police).

But it was the Campus Security people who really let those kids down big time. They should go to jail!
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Horn


Wobbly you are right about the campus cops....but who was the face of penn state? A rent a cop or joepa? Not saying they were right either. I think it was ridiculous to go to thr head of the campus cops....really?.....thats like telling your older brother you broke the tv instead of telling your parents.

On top of that if he really wanted to do something someone outside of penn state with "real" authority should have been notified.

He was scared it would hurt his legacy and penn state. That would mean less money. He kept it in house for a reason.

And many others got away too...
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

Let's not forget that back in 2005, the DA investigating the sex scandal issues ended up "disappearing" of the face of the planet........
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/15/missing-da-investigated-sandusky-case/

So he reported it. DA came up missing. :hmm
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rmcelwee
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Wobblybob
Jan 23 2012, 11:59 AM
I went to Penn State back in the 60's so I'm a little biased here, (not a football fanatic though), but I think some of you are being a little too tough on Paterno.
He worked for Paterno. One word from Paterno and he would have been immediately fired. Paterno kept him on the staff, raping little boys, because it made him money and kept the winning tradition going. Paterno reported it to campus police (instead of the real police) to cover his ass with a flimsy paperwork trail. You are being WAY too easy on him. I'm sure if your sister had been raped by a teacher at Penn State in the 60's you would have had a different point of view (unless that teacher was giving you good grades - maybe dropping the ball would have been ok if that were the case).

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Horn


I agree with you jm....lots of people failed. Its ridiculous. Not 1 person did what they should have. Throw them in a cell with bubba. Many people will get away and yes joepa gets fired and the story dies away.....
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Old Man


effective scapegoating
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Short story about a little community near me. Female student accuses the principle of inappropriately touching her hair and making inappropriate comments in the computer lab. IIRC. He says it's unfounded but everyone rallies to the defense of the victim and charges are brought up and a court date is set. This weeks headline was that the charges were dropped two days before the court date on the condition that he resign - and he was given an undisclosed amount of money. Probably enough for me to make it to retirement, eh. :-/ Lesson for the administration would probably be not to jump to conclusions so soon. But in this case the DA goes missing. Strange.

I didn't go to a university, I joined the Navy. Still by then I had a pretty good idea that I didn't want to have sex with men. Not even as an experiment. Later when I was a janitor at a freshman dorm I came to realize that the situation was pretty much free range high school kids without their parents. And that wasn't a 40,000 student college with a police force either. Point here being that even though we might like to think large institutions have some security, they may not and kids, youth, students, or just people have to be aware of the evil and bad people out there and protect themselves.
I'm thinking of Halloween is a good example. You tell kids 'don't talk to strangers,' 'don't accept gifts from strangers,' but it's OK on Halloween until someone says there's bad candy or something in their bag and then we blame the person who gave the candy. :die

After reading this thread I started wondering which version of the Bible some of us were reading. Online I like http://bible.cc/john/8-7.htm with 18 versions and they all seem to be saying the same line "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7, KJ. Or am I reading that wrong?
I like the quote: "...He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. With all his heart he should avoid fellowship with evil-doers, and pray for the remission of their sins. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul's ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!" BWF - Baha'u'llah.
Of course both admit that, being human, we have made a judgment in the first place, as I did. And don't think I didn't have my share of being bullied, abused or not taking action when I could have.

PS Anybody read the story of the San Francisco place kicker who is getting a lot of hate Tweets?
Edited by Bad Bent, Jan 23 2012, 03:29 PM.
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rmcelwee
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This is from the Bible that I have (2 Samuel 6):

As they came to the threshing place of Nacon, the oxen stumbled, and Uzzah reached out and took hold of the Covenant Box. At once the Lord God became angry with Uzzah and killed him because of his irreverence.

If God can kill someone for simply trying to keep the Ark of the Covenant from falling off a wagon then we can surely skin alive someone who molested little boys. Or am I wrong?
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Horn


This different than just a guy and a girl alone. A grad assistant walked in. yes he failed worse than joepa. Did anyone hear the bob costas interview with sandusky, here the tape of sanduskys wife.

even sandusky admitted to being in a shower with a kid...listen to the bob costas interview.

There are many case where there is a he said she said. If you get accused of raped you can pretty much kiss your career and many other things goodbye...just from being accused.

Rmcelwee lol...i agree with you...but im sure you will be wrong.......i think you opened the flood gates. Lol
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Horn


Oh yea bb didnt read the bible. More of a koran guy
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rmcelwee
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horn12007
Jan 23 2012, 06:42 PM
Rmcelwee lol...i agree with you...but im sure you will be wrong.......i think you opened the flood gates. Lol
There are a ton of places in the Bible where it tells you that if you fail to act you are as bad (or worse) than the person doing the wrong. Not many places referencing sinners "casting the first stone".

Yes, the flood gates are probably opened...
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Cobrajet25
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Wobblybob
Jan 23 2012, 11:59 AM
I went to Penn State back in the 60's so I'm a little biased here, (not a football fanatic though), but I think some of you are being a little too tough on Paterno.

Keep this in mind: He did report it to the head of the campus security almost immediately. That sounds lame (like reporting it to a rent-a-cop) but Penn State, with 44,000 students plus thousands of faculty and other employees, is like a small city by itself. Campus Security is the "police". They have all the authority and perform all the functions of any local police force and reporting this incident to them was, in fact, reporting it to the "authorities".

No, he didn't do as much as he should have. Like he said himself, he never had to deal with this kind of situation before and didn't really know what to do. So he passed it on to those who are supposed to know what to do. He admitted that he wished he had followed up better. (In effect, should have policed the police).

But it was the Campus Security people who really let those kids down big time. They should go to jail!
:thumb

Paterno broke NO LAW. In hindsight, did he do enough? No. I think he would even agree with that. Nobody is perfect...not even all the righteous condemners on this board. Banishing him to hell is a touch much. He did everything he was required to do by law, but I guess if you are the most famous man in the room you are going to take all the incoming fire...whether you are guilty of wrongdoing or not.

Paterno is getting bashed more than the creep who did the actual molesting (who wasn't even part of Paterno's program anymore). That says A LOT.
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Way


Paterno got what he deserved. He is being defended wayyyy more than he is being condemned. That is what is the most disturbing.

Paterno was the one with the power and the fact that Mcquery went to him first shows that. As should be obvious by how vocal his supporters are, one snap of his fingers and things would have happened. Legality aside, he was morally responsible. Legally, if they did not have a case, Penn State would not have been able to fire Paterno in the first place because he could have turned around and sued for wrongful dismissal.

I'm not sure where the bible says we are not to take action when we see or know of wrongdoing. Matter of fact, it's a sin to do nothing:

(Jas 4:17) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (KJV)

Wonder where condemnation come in here? It doesn't. It has to do with action. Paterno could have called Sandusky out on the allegation at the very least knowing the work he was doing involving kids.

But I do agree that McQueary seems to be slipping under the radar. Imagine if it had been a murder.. what then? Does he report it to Paterno or does he call the police via 911? Rape is on the same scale and it's just as ludicrous that he didn't call 911 to begin with.


Edited by Way, Jan 24 2012, 02:03 AM.
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Cobrajet25
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Firing Paterno one game before he was supposed to retire anyway was just a PR move by Penn State. "Damage control". It was meant to convey to the press and public that the school was taking the incident seriously (only after it became public, of course) and "doing something". This incident quickly became a media shitstorm for the school when it broke, and by sacrificing the already-retiring Paterno, the school hoped to end the scandal there. I am sure they knew he would have no desire to fight his termination and viewed the odds of such action as an acceptable risk.

If he were going to stay on another 10 years they would have gone to the mat for him because his only crime was his lackadaisical (in hindsight) handling of what was to him a third-hand accusation. You mention "wrongful termination". If Paterno had fired Sandusky on the spot with no school-led, objective investigation or due process, it would have been PENN STATE that would have been sued for wrongful termination. Like I said, Paterno was the most famous guy on campus. But in legal terms, there were a LOT of people in the Penn State adminstration that outranked him. People who planned on having long careers at the school. It was these people who were being protected by Paterno's termination.

I am not a football fan, college or otherwise. I wouldn't have been able to pick Paterno out of a police lineup. But based on the FACTS of this case, I think everyone needs to get off their noble white steeds, put away their righteous swords of justice, stop the Monday-morning-quarterback thing and let the man rest in peace.

Like I said, nobody is perfect.
Edited by Cobrajet25, Jan 24 2012, 02:47 AM.
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Way


Cobrajet25
Jan 24 2012, 02:37 AM
Like I said, nobody is perfect.
If it happened to your kid that would sound as lame to you as it does to me.

Firing Paterno was a good step in the right direction. Too bad the right steps weren't taken years earlier.


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