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Geo Won't start
Topic Started: Feb 18 2012, 01:20 PM (3,439 Views)
Mr. NeoGeo
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SOLVED. See post #20

Hi,

EDIT: I confirmed that I am 5 degrees BTDC. Will the timing still read "correct" if I am 180 degrees off?

My Geo won't start. I cleaned the engine yesterday and replaced the dizzy oring and timing belt. I think it is a water issue. I was VERY careful not to disturb the timing. It has been mentioned that I may have the timing off by 180 degrees. My dizzy will only go in one way, so I am pretty sure that is correct. The camshaft gear only goes on one way, so I don't think I am off there either. Since I can't check the timing because it won't start, is there a way to check to see if it is off by 180 degrees with out it running?

Thanks all. Gotta have it running for work Monday. :'(
Edited by Mr. NeoGeo, Feb 20 2012, 04:23 PM.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

Will the engine turn over when you engage the starter? Or is it dead when you engage the starter?

My guess is that your timing is off. Not a big deal. Everyone on GMF, Even the Boss, had had a bit of trouble getting the timing marks to line up. Take your time, do not rush yourself. Pull the timing cover off and take a peek.

Make sure you don't deplete your battery charge by needlessly trying to start a nonstartable engine. Figure out why it wont start before you kill your battery.

Are the plug wires in the correct order? You can apart WD-40 inside of the dizzy to dry it out. Dizzys don't like water. Turn the key to the on position and listen for the fuel pump. It should stay on for a few seconds. If you cannot hear it, you might want to look into that possible problem.

Maybe you got water down the throttle body. Hmmm.

There are endless reasons that your metro won't start. Let us know if there are any additional symptoms.
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Mr. NeoGeo
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dayle1960
Feb 18 2012, 02:01 PM
Will the engine turn over when you engage the starter? Or is it dead when you engage the starter?

My guess is that your timing is off. Not a big deal. Everyone on GMF, Even the Boss, had had a bit of trouble getting the timing marks to line up. Take your time, do not rush yourself. Pull the timing cover off and take a peek.

Make sure you don't deplete your battery charge by needlessly trying to start a nonstartable engine. Figure out why it wont start before you kill your battery.

Are the plug wires in the correct order? You can apart WD-40 inside of the dizzy to dry it out. Dizzys don't like water. Turn the key to the on position and listen for the fuel pump. It should stay on for a few seconds. If you cannot hear it, you might want to look into that possible problem.

Maybe you got water down the throttle body. Hmmm.

There are endless reasons that your metro won't start. Let us know if there are any additional symptoms.
The engine does turn over.

Stupid question probably, but what should I be taking a peak at under the timing cover? You meaning the camshaft gear? It only goes on one way right? I can tell you that the cam shaft was not rotated any when replacing the timing belt. Or the crank shaft.

The dizzy is dry and the plugs are in the correct order. I am getting spark on all three cylinders. I can hear the fuel pump and the injector is spraying.

I also tried some starting fluid. No go.

About the dizzy. It only goes on one way right? Mine only fully inserts on one configuration. If I try to turn the rotor 180, it does not seat all the way. Looks like it should but won't. If my timing is off that much, then this is where the problem is I think. The timing light confirms 5 degrees BTDC, but I read that this can be true even if the timing is off by 180 degrees.

EDIT: I took some measurements of the "teeth" on the dizzy that mate with the cam shaft. They are slightly off set and so the dizzy can only go on one way.

Ugh... Thanks for the help!
Edited by Mr. NeoGeo, Feb 18 2012, 03:22 PM.
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dayle1960
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Why take a peek under the timing cover? Because in your original post you stated you did something with the timing belt. If you replaced the timing belt you will need to align the cam sprocket and crank sprocket to their mating points on the engine block. Did you do that when you did something with the timing belt?

In your edited original post you state that the timing is set at 5* BTDC. How did you check this if your engine does not run?
Edited by dayle1960, Feb 18 2012, 03:33 PM.
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Mr. NeoGeo
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dayle1960
Feb 18 2012, 03:28 PM
Why take a peek under the timing cover? Because in your original post you stated you did something with the timing belt. If you replaced the timing belt you will need to align the cam sprocket and crank sprocket to their mating points on the engine block. Did you do that when you did something with the timing belt?

In your edited original post you state that the timing is set at 5* BTDC. How did you check this if your engine does not run?
Yes, I changed the timing belt. But I did not disturb the sprockets. I checked the timing using a timing light. I was able to turn the engine over fast enough to see it.

Thank you for you help!
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Old Man


your timing is probably off--no matter how much it pains you to do it you better check it.
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dayle1960
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Mr. NeoGeo
Feb 18 2012, 03:37 PM
dayle1960
Feb 18 2012, 03:28 PM
Why take a peek under the timing cover? Because in your original post you stated you did something with the timing belt. If you replaced the timing belt you will need to align the cam sprocket and crank sprocket to their mating points on the engine block. Did you do that when you did something with the timing belt?

In your edited original post you state that the timing is set at 5* BTDC. How did you check this if your engine does not run?
Yes, I changed the timing belt. But I did not disturb the sprockets. I checked the timing using a timing light. I was able to turn the engine over fast enough to see it.

Thank you for you help!
If your engine will not start, how did you spin the crankshaft in order to check the timing? Did you hook a drill to the crankshaft bolt or did you use the battery to turn the engine?
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Mr. NeoGeo
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dayle1960
Feb 18 2012, 03:45 PM
Mr. NeoGeo
Feb 18 2012, 03:37 PM
dayle1960
Feb 18 2012, 03:28 PM
Why take a peek under the timing cover? Because in your original post you stated you did something with the timing belt. If you replaced the timing belt you will need to align the cam sprocket and crank sprocket to their mating points on the engine block. Did you do that when you did something with the timing belt?

In your edited original post you state that the timing is set at 5* BTDC. How did you check this if your engine does not run?
Yes, I changed the timing belt. But I did not disturb the sprockets. I checked the timing using a timing light. I was able to turn the engine over fast enough to see it.

Thank you for you help!
If your engine will not start, how did you spin the crankshaft in order to check the timing? Did you hook a drill to the crankshaft bolt or did you use the battery to turn the engine?
I turned over via the ignition key and starter.
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Bad Bent
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While you did not disturb the sprockets when you changed the timing belt it is still possible that the valves rotated the cam shaft a little when you took the belt off the cam gear. This is how the timing marks should be aligned. Yes, sorry, but it means removing the alternator belt, water pump pulley and crank pulley again. :banghead

Posted Image

Also a close up of the marks; http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp123/BadBent/Repair%20Pics/timingmarks-1.jpg

If you are using a Chilton manual the picture of the 1-3-2 firing order is incorrect. Here's a corrected picture; Posted Image

Be sure when speaking of timing that it's either (A) the cam timing and timing belt alignment or (B) Ignition timing of the crank pulley and timing scale on the timing belt cover with a timing light.
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Mr. NeoGeo
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I have checked the timing by turning the engine over with the starter. It reads 5 degress BTDC. With timing light...
Edited by Mr. NeoGeo, Feb 19 2012, 09:14 AM.
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charlesufarley
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Are you getting fuel? Will it fire with a puff of starting fluid?
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Mr. NeoGeo
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This morning the Geo tried to hit a lick. The plugs were very wet and did smell like gas. Could be gas/water mix? Ran compression tests. 120 on all. buttoned back up and tried it again. Tried to hit a lick again. I think there is too much gas/water in there some where.
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Vaultgirl
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I'm having the same problem with the Snail (auto) it now a paperweight in the yard. I'm thinking its the ECM- I'll replace it when I can, But will keep a watch on this thread.
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Woodie
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120 is wore out.

GeoMetroDuo: ECM is the least likely cause. I'm not saying that CAN'T be it, but it's the last place I'd check unless I KNEW the battery cables had been put on backwards or something like that.
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charlesufarley
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If your plugs are wet, unplug the injector, (small white 2 wire plug high up on throttle body, passenger side) then floorboard the pedal and crank it. You may be able to clean the fuel out that way. Sometimes mine will flood for no apparent reason, then will be fine after I unplug injector and clean it out. Plug it back in and it starts and runs fine, maybe for months. My wife acts that way too, sometimes. lol
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