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Head Gasket?
Topic Started: Feb 28 2012, 12:04 AM (1,513 Views)
Svdharma
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My friends geo broke down on the way back from a trip, and since he is tired of working on it he decided to sell it to me for $250. Unfortunately I am not 100% sure what the problem is. The car was heavily loaded and we had been driving for a few hours when the engine overheated, lost power, and then quickly stalled just as we got to the side of the road. Now the engine will run until it warms up at which time it stalls. The oil is very dark but it might not have been changed in a while. There is what looks like a little foam and if you run the car without the oil cap steam rises from the oil after a minute or two. It also pukes antifreeze if you take the cap off before you start the car and has a history of loosing oil without apparently burning any. I think the car needs a new head gasket and I am prepared to replace it but I have about $100 for a parts budget so I cannot afford to fix the wrong thing. Are there any positive tests I can use to determine that it is either the head gasket or a cracked block before I dive into it?
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Coche Blanco
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http://geometroforum.com/topic/4674519/1/

Probably has a lot of the info you'll want. With that description, I highly doubt it's going to be just a head gasket.
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Svdharma
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What makes you say that/what other kinds of problems would you expect? I could put the car on ice until I can afford to fix whatever else is wrong with it.
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Coche Blanco
Feb 28 2012, 12:09 AM
http://geometroforum.com/topic/4674519/1/

Probably has a lot of the info you'll want. With that description, I highly doubt it's going to be just a head gasket.
Coche is mildly explaining the tip of the iceburg protrudes above the surface of the ocean.

And, there's more worms in the can than you see on the top.

There is probably corrosion on the mating surface of the head which caused the engine coolant to leak into the combustion chamber. This is most commonly known as a blown head gasket.

Also, there may be corrosion on the top of the block.

Due to the lack of proper oil changes, as indicated by the dark color of the oil, the piston rings are probably stuck in the piston ring lands.

Also, the oil pump is full of grunge, for lack of a better technical term.

The valve guide seals are most probably hard as a rock.

The camshaft seal is in the same condition as the valve guide seals.

The good news is that 20 or more hours of cleaning, inspecting, and replacing damaged parts can be done by you. The bad news is that replacing a head gasket will probably not completely fix the present engine performance issues.

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Svdharma
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Oh, I understand, I know there are a lot of other problems with this car anyway including a previous owner with the IQ of a retarded 8 year old. I pretty much just need to get it up to the desert about 150 miles away where my work shop is, but I intend to rebuild the entire car including rewiring it, rebuilding the engine with a new upper end, economy camshaft, new seats, subs, ignition system, water pump, distributor, battery, clutch, spark plugs and wires, etc etc etc. I do not have a lot of cash for parts at the moment because I bought to car spur of the moment, but I have a very good business on the weekends only as an antique dealer so I should be able to pour a lot of cash and time into it in the future. For the moment, I just need to to be able to move between parking spaces and drive up to the desert once so I can completely rebuild the engine. I have been planning on buying a metro for a while now, and I like working on cars, so I figured I could not pass it up for $250 even if I do have a few hundred hours worth of work to get it perfect. I also want to take out the back seats and build a sleeping/cargo platform so that I can have the option of sleeping in it for a month or two. I want to focus my money on fixing up this car and building my inventory, so as long as it can move a couple miles between parking spaces every couple days until I can completely rebuild it I will be happy with replacing the head gasket for now. I will probably buy a cheap bolt, o-ring and gasket set for $45 on ebay because I will be having to replace the gaskets again in the next few weeks anyway. I am mostly just afraid that I am going to replace the head gasket only the find that it is just fine and the problem was actually with the ignition system or something like that. I have some machining experience and I am confident in my ability to put together an engine, especially such a simple one, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my being ability to recognize the symptoms of engine problems, and I have never heard of a blown head gasket causing an engine to stall after it warms up.
Edited by Svdharma, Feb 28 2012, 03:50 AM.
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Deleted User
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I have a cheap ass Evergreen head gasket that I got in an eBay kit. I never use them. They are the crapiest head gaskets I've ever seen. Guaranteed to fail in less than 10,000 miles. I'll mail it to you for $15. Spray a good of copper spray on it, clean off the head and block, and you might be able to limp it to where you're going to do the job right. Never mind replacing the head bolts at this time, either. Just make sure the threads are clean. You might not get them to the full 54 foot pound of torque without getting the feeling that they're going to snap off in the block. 40 ish foot pounds should get you 150 miles. A slap and dash head gasket can be done in an afternoon.

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This is the head gasket that I use.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=270920776215

I just removed a Fel-Pro head gasket this afternoon from a G10 engine. The fire rings were not connected. The engine had 60 miles since it was installed. It was leaking coolant into the #3 cylinder.
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Svdharma
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Geo Glenn
Feb 28 2012, 03:56 AM

I just removed a Fel-Pro head gasket this afternoon from a G10 engine. The fire rings were not connected. The engine had 60 miles since it was installed. It was leaking coolant into the #3 cylinder.
I hope that evergreen lasts longer than that! I will definitely be driving it like an old lady until I rebuild the engine.
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Svdharma
Feb 28 2012, 04:03 AM
Geo Glenn
Feb 28 2012, 03:56 AM

I just removed a Fel-Pro head gasket this afternoon from a G10 engine. The fire rings were not connected. The engine had 60 miles since it was installed. It was leaking coolant into the #3 cylinder.
I hope that evergreen lasts longer than that! I will definitely be driving it like an old lady until I rebuild the engine.
I'm not so sure the Evergreen gasket will last very long at all. One of my buddies in Arkansas got a gift of an Evergreen and an Apex head gasket from yours truley. He already blew one in only a month. Just to make sure he would have to replace the head gasket yet again, he installed the Apex head gasket. Both of these cheap ass head gaskets were sprayed with copper spray. The Fel-Pro gasket that I removed today doesn't look much better. Soft graphite.

I have no idea why your engine will not run once it gets warmed up. Perhaps there is enough engine coolant getting into a combustion chamber to put out the fire. You're more likely to damage the engine by driving it than anything.

The best thing you could possibly do is drain the engine coolant, run the engine for a couple of minutes to make sure there is no liquid in the combustion chamber, and park it. Put it on a trailer or tow it to where it needs to go for repair.
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Svdharma
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Drained the antifreeze and I am now pretty sure the head gasket is blown. Most of the exhaust was coming out of the radiator after the coolant was gone. Speaking of coolant, there was practically no antifreeze in it so I am a little worried that the water in the oil is going to cause corrosion also. Should I drain the oil right away or leave it in there until I replace the head gasket?
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GeoStalker
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"Chicks dig me and guys think I'm cool."

Not to throw any more gas on this fire, but allow me to suggest one more item to check.....the frame horns. I didn't catch what part of the country you live in, but if you have rusted out frame horns, I wouldn't even mess with the aforementioned gasket issues. Sell it for parts. You could fix all the of the things listed above, but if you hit a bump you have what is essentially a broken frame and it's worth next to nothing, except for parts.

Worth checking out before you sink another dollar into it.
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Might as well drain the oil, also. Sounds like you're down for the count . . .
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Svdharma
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I am thinking about rebuilding the top end in my backyard and then putting the lower end off until I have some more money.
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GeoStalker
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"Chicks dig me and guys think I'm cool."

Svdharma
Feb 28 2012, 06:39 PM
I am thinking about rebuilding the top end in my backyard and then putting the lower end off until I have some more money.
Best if you can do them together. A complete rebuild would include top end, bottom end, chamber boring and cleaning the lifters, plus an entire oil drain, refill and Seafoam, drain and fill again. But I understand the situation you're in. Your car, your budget, your call.
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