Why cant I buy a new metro

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Why cant I buy a new metro
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 1 2012, 10:25 PM (2,952 Views)
nerys	Mar 3 2012, 01:23 AM Post #31
Grr Posts: 8,581 Group: Valued Members Member #1,240 Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Location Levittown PA USA Year/Make/Model 1994 Geo Metro Xfi	http://www.mpgfacts.com/?did=433&year=1987 NOTE the "before adjustments" values (ie not the "new" epa values) anyone on this site can beat and EXCEED the "old" EPA values. MY car OLD EPA is 53 city 58 highway and I am exceeding those values. Even on E10. as for the smart. YES the smart survived the 80mph crash with the passenger cabin in tact. the doors even functioned still. NO PASSENGER WOULD HAVE SURVIVED. Period. They even admit this in the video. the G Forces transferred to the passenger cabin would have killed everyone in it. Edited by nerys, Mar 3 2012, 01:25 AM.



Coche Blanco	Mar 3 2012, 01:25 AM Post #32
Troll Certified Posts: 21,983 Group: Valued Members Member #982 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Location North Alabama Year/Make/Model 1993 3/5	nerys Mar 3 2012, 01:23 AM http://www.mpgfacts.com/?did=433&year=1987 NOTE the "before adjustments" values (ie not the "new" epa values) anyone on this site can beat and EXCEED the "old" EPA values. as for the smart. YES the smart survived the 80mph crash with the passenger cabin in tact. the doors even functioned still. NO PASSENGER WOULD HAVE SURVIVED. Period. They even admit this in the video. the G Forces transferred to the passenger cabin would have killed everyone in it. Hi Apples, meet Oranges, let's compare you guys. Edited by Coche Blanco, Mar 3 2012, 01:25 AM.



Coche Blanco	Mar 3 2012, 01:27 AM Post #33
Troll Certified Posts: 21,983 Group: Valued Members Member #982 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Location North Alabama Year/Make/Model 1993 3/5	EPA Official Highway MPG: 42 Highway MPG (before adjustments): 60.20 http://www.mpgfacts.com/?did=215&year=2012 Much better comparison.



mjspiess	Mar 3 2012, 02:00 AM Post #34
Posts: 3,092 Group: Valued Members Member #575 Joined: Mar 15, 2009 Location Lansing, MI 48911 Year/Make/Model '95 Geo Metro XFi	Quote: What is the newest greatest super sub compact car we just heard of.? Chevy Sonic anyone? super small super high tech. 5speed 35mpg 6 Speed 40mpg comes out later this year. 1.2L 4cyl engine. Subcompact. Not super small or super high tech. It is small & it is high tech., but not super by any means on both accounts. 1.8 5 speed = 35 mpg 1.4T 6 speed = 40 mpg 1.2 5 speed = Chevy Spark, not Sonic. Micro car, so super small, but bigger than the Fiat 500 & iQ & estimated to achieve 40-50 mpg http://www.speedlux.com/chevrolet-spark-2013-price-info-specs/ As Coche Blanco already pointed out, lets convert the Sonic to old EPA estimates. 40 mpg magically converts to 43.2-50 mpg based on the fact most cars dropped by 8% and some as much as 25%. In this review, they achieved 67mpg over a 97 mile drive with the Chevy Sonic 1.4T 6 speed.



Coche Blanco	Mar 3 2012, 10:15 AM Post #35
Troll Certified Posts: 21,983 Group: Valued Members Member #982 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Location North Alabama Year/Make/Model 1993 3/5	Jesus, 10 air bags?



allmountain40	Mar 3 2012, 10:41 AM Post #36
Posts: 1,637 Group: Tech Certified Member #1,942 Joined: Mar 4, 2010 Location Ashford, Washington Year/Make/Model 93 Metro 3/5 daily driver, 90 SSGTi up and running!	nerys Mar 2 2012, 08:24 PM The "weight and safety" reasoning is a straw man argument it has no validity at all this can actually be proven rather simply. What is the newest greatest super sub compact car we just heard of.? Chevy Sonic anyone? super small super high tech. 5speed 35mpg 6 Speed 40mpg comes out later this year. 1.2L 4cyl engine. Now lets look at a much older car. I did searches for random cars and a name popped into my head. Toyota Camry. one of the most common prolific cars in the world. the oldest one I could find was 1987 it was a 5spd 4cyl 2.0L engine. it was a MUCH larger and far less aerodynamic car. 43mpg Wait wait. the sonic is heavier all the new safety equipment. 2013 Chevy Sonic 2800 pounds 1987 Toyota Camry 2700 pounds. OK mass is NOT the reason. in my book this is pretty clear. they are INTENTIONALLY detuning these cars for "just enough" fuel economy. how else can you REDUCE the engine from 2.0L to 1.2L increase the tranny to a 6spd SHRINK the car by a lot increase the AERO by a lot "AND" add 25 years of technological advancement and end up 3mpg WORSE than before? How does that work exactly? NOW mind you MPG's are meaningless "in the bigger picture" you drive a 50mpg Metro. Does that save you money? NO. what saves you money is NOT that you drive a 50mpg METRO. its that no one else DOES. you are "outside" the curve and "THIS" is what saves you money. give everyone else 50mpg cars and take a guess what happens to fuel prices? doubles over night "guaranteed" without question. Gas companies would have no choice since we would be buying 50% less fuel to maintain existing revenue they would have to DOUBLE the price of fuel. If for some reason I had to buy a brand new car I would have only one choice. Nissan Leaf. its by far the cheapest car on the market today by over $13,000 and that includes electricity. The Camry and Sonic are roughly the same weight. The sonic has a much smaller engine trying to move the same mass, so it has to work harder, ie; use more fuel at a higher rpm to move that same mass as the larger engine at lower rpm. This is where torque matters. Had the sonic been built before the new safety standards it would be lighter and would get better mileage. No straw man here, just basic physics.



Coche Blanco	Mar 3 2012, 10:52 AM Post #37
Troll Certified Posts: 21,983 Group: Valued Members Member #982 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Location North Alabama Year/Make/Model 1993 3/5	You're right, but...he's not comparing the same MPG measurements. Where he said it gets "43" it really gets "31"



Woodie	Mar 3 2012, 11:30 AM Post #38
Posts: 13,853 Group: Tech Certified Member #471 Joined: Feb 13, 2009 Location College Park, MD Year/Make/Model 1991 Pontiac Firefly Turbo 2010 Kizashi GTS	The weight of a Smart fortwo in Europe is 1609 pounds. Here in the States, the bottom line car weights 1808 and the top of the line weighs 1900 lbs. There's some more of your government meddling at work. Almost the identical difference that government safety standards added to the Metro in 95, and we all know what that did to the mileage. A huge difference. Any car sold in the States must have side impact beams, a door which interlocks into the vehicle frame, two air bags, tire pressure monitoring system, electronic stability control, anti-lock brakes, etc, etc, etc. The GEN2 Metro has none of these and the GEN3 Metro only has the first three. Also, that's just the short list of demands that I am thinking of right now, I'm sure there's more.



bogs	Mar 3 2012, 03:21 PM Post #39
Duct tape heals all wounds Posts: 9,403 Group: Valued Members Member #1,286 Joined: Oct 5, 2009 Location Possum Lodge Year/Make/Model 1996 Metro Sedan / 4 cylinder / 5 speed	Coche Blanco Mar 3 2012, 10:52 AM You're right, but...he's not comparing the same MPG measurements. Where he said it gets "43" it really gets "31" That is ok, as mjs points out, the Sonic "really gets" 67 mpg, so now Nerys has to re-run the argument.



nerys	Mar 3 2012, 05:03 PM Post #40
Grr Posts: 8,581 Group: Valued Members Member #1,240 Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Location Levittown PA USA Year/Make/Model 1994 Geo Metro Xfi	not really I don't have to rerun anything bogs. if the sonic truly gets 67mpg WITHOUT any serious hypermiling then that is VERY impressive. How did they test a sonic btw its not even available yet? also what would the 87 camry get if you "ALSO" drove it the same way. if that was "pure highway" to get that 67 mpg its about as meaningless as my 70mpg tank in my metro that was "pure" highway ie my run was a "one shot" deal under unusual conditions. my point is we are not talking about a thousand pound difference here. I noticed no one posted the MASS of their metro's I believe mine is 1642 pounds and its an XFI I might as well go check that one moment. if you cared to check its 1808 pounds. WOW what do you know same as your smart 4/2 values so care to elaborate on how impact beams safety equipment and airbags mean SQUAT at the same mass? http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1995-to-2001-geo-chevrolet-metro-8.htm I notice that you posted data for the Cruze Eco. a bit expensive starting at $17k if it truly can get 60mpg that really is NOT a bad car. too bad its a GM product meaning I can never own one. I did not know they had the EPA data yet on those newer cars. I have to say if the data is accurate the mileage IS impressive. I compared the "DATA I HAD" I was not aware (and never thought to check) to see if the site had the newer cars data since it is a "not yet released" car. its a pity they force you to buy the top of the line $17k+ model to GET those features. but if it can truly get 60mpg that really is pretty good. I wonder if that was on E10 or not though on a 2012 car the difference should be pretty small. if that data holds I stand corrected on that. a 17mpg improvement is VERY good. its too bad it comes at such a hefty price.



Coche Blanco	Mar 3 2012, 06:23 PM Post #41
Troll Certified Posts: 21,983 Group: Valued Members Member #982 Joined: Jul 15, 2009 Location North Alabama Year/Make/Model 1993 3/5	nerys Mar 3 2012, 05:03 PM if that data holds I stand corrected on that. a 17mpg improvement is VERY good. its too bad it comes at such a hefty price. We're making progress Nerys. baby steps.



mjspiess	Mar 3 2012, 06:43 PM Post #42
Posts: 3,092 Group: Valued Members Member #575 Joined: Mar 15, 2009 Location Lansing, MI 48911 Year/Make/Model '95 Geo Metro XFi	Quote: How did they test a sonic btw its not even available yet? The Sonic has been available to the public since October 2011. How do you speak so matter of factly when you don't even have the correct information?



bogs	Mar 3 2012, 07:01 PM Post #43
Duct tape heals all wounds Posts: 9,403 Group: Valued Members Member #1,286 Joined: Oct 5, 2009 Location Possum Lodge Year/Make/Model 1996 Metro Sedan / 4 cylinder / 5 speed	nerys Mar 3 2012, 05:03 PM not really I don't have to rerun anything bogs. if the sonic truly gets 67mpg WITHOUT any serious hypermiling then that is VERY impressive. How did they test a sonic btw its not even available yet? also what would the 87 camry get if you "ALSO" drove it the same way. Whoa there big fella, first of all I don't know why your singling me out for this honor, CB was the one that pointed out the inconsistencies in your comparison All I said was say that now that we know, you can run it again with both being inconsistent As for how did they test a Sonic, I see mjs already answered that one, and raised a good question to boot For the last part about what would you get in the Camry if you drove it the same as how they drove the Sonic that got the 67 mpg, well, I seriously doubt that the Camry would ever come close, but feel free to try and report back how you do



nerys	Mar 3 2012, 08:05 PM Post #44
Grr Posts: 8,581 Group: Valued Members Member #1,240 Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Location Levittown PA USA Year/Make/Model 1994 Geo Metro Xfi	Because the site I looked up for the sonic said the 2012 release was canceled and it would be released as a 2013 model year mid 2012. I never looked further. At least I am pretty sure it was the sonic ?? I can't think of any other. I thought it was actually chevy's site too. will have to see if I can find that page. it without question gave me the impression the car was not released yet. Guess that was "bad source info" I singled you out bogs because you said it "That is ok, as mjs points out, the Sonic "really gets" 67 mpg, so now Nerys has to re-run the argument." I have NO problem admitting when I am wrong. but doing that requires data and evidence not just "say so" this thread provided data and evidence. Proving my data was incorrect/incomplete. I have no problem with that.



mjspiess	Mar 3 2012, 08:29 PM Post #45
Posts: 3,092 Group: Valued Members Member #575 Joined: Mar 15, 2009 Location Lansing, MI 48911 Year/Make/Model '95 Geo Metro XFi	Quote: Because the site I looked up for the sonic said the 2012 release was canceled and it would be released as a 2013 model year mid 2012. That info is regarding the 2013 Chevy Spark 1.2 4 cylinder 5 speed.



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